what type of sarung/scabbard fits this keris?

Robert · 28th May 2016, 07:18 AM

I don't know if this will help or not, but this is the best I could do with the posted photo.

Best,
Robert

A. G. Maisey · 28th May 2016, 08:39 AM

This looks like silver now.

Is it possible that the yellow tint in the first photo was a reflected colour?

Gustav · 28th May 2016, 08:58 AM

Very unusual mix of features on hilt, like the execution of the waist band. The blade is 40 cm long, so quite long for Palembang.

Gustav · 28th May 2016, 09:03 AM

Entire blade.

Gustav · 28th May 2016, 09:12 AM

Because of the unique hilt style and not quite Palembang Mendak it would still look strange in a conventional Palembang sheath. Something like old North Coast Java/Lampung would look perhaps a little bit better, perhaps not. I also doubt, the Mendak and hilt are aesthetically the best mix.

Do we see such extensive use of granulation on Mendak in Sumatra?

Green · 28th May 2016, 11:56 AM

Here's a few more pics , sorry they are not v clear as they were taken under low light. The inside of the pendokok look dull with suasa tint but on rubbing it, yellow color quickly came out.

I don't see any silver but it could very well be gilded as this method of spraying golden layer on base metal is v often done on many malay pendokok... except that the pendokok look rather thin and does not look like a typical malay pendokok.

also, i can't put what type of blade this is. does not look typical malay blade..the aggressive abuse (?) of surface texture of the blade by the previous western (?) owner doesn't help. For it could have been previously warangan (which puts it to javanese type) or wasn't.

A. G. Maisey · 28th May 2016, 01:22 PM

I agree with you Gustav, this is not a typical Palembang blade, but its not typical of anything I know, certainly not Jawa, and with that kaku blade it doesn't fit easily anywhere, however, there have been some mighty queer keris emerge from South Sumatra, and Palembang dress is as good as any dress that I can imagine to put this into.

When trying to make a decision on keris origins and nothing is obvious, we usually play a game of elimination and then see what we have left. If we cannot place this keris with some degree of certainty into one of the big, well-known baskets, then Sumatra is probably where it belongs, and South Sumatra is perhaps the safest dress to use.

The problem we face when trying to determine geographic point of origin for keris is this:- once we move away from an area of dominant influence, the rules fly out the door. There is variation upon variation upon variation, and nothing is certain, so we do the best we can under miserable circumstances.

I'd still run with Palembang --- unless somebody has a better suggestion?

One of the really good indicators with any keris blade is the way in which the ron dha is cut. The ron dha on this keris shows absolutely no consistency of form, and nothing that is identifiable as any known form, but it does show a form that mimics the elements of a correctly cut Palembang or Javanese ron dha, almost as if the maker had seen a correctly made keris and tried to remember what it looked like. Again, the prominent ada-ada, a distinctive feature in some Javanese keris, but not to this extent, and the number of waves? An abomination and an insult. This blade was not made by any empu, nor any pandai keris, it was made by a talented tukang besi at a customer's direction.

David · 28th May 2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Here's a few more pics , sorry they are not v clear as they were taken under low light. The inside of the pendokok look dull with suasa tint but on rubbing it, yellow color quickly came out.

I don't see any silver but it could very well be gilded as this method of spraying golden layer on base metal is v often done on many malay pendokok... except that the pendokok look rather thin and does not look like a typical malay pendokok.

also, i can't put what type of blade this is. does not look typical malay blade..the aggressive abuse (?) of surface texture of the blade by the previous western (?) owner doesn't help. For it could have been previously warangan (which puts it to javanese type) or wasn't.

Green, in these latest photos the hilt cup doesn't look like suassa or gold at all. Looks a little copper-ish on the interior, but i would more likely suggest brass if pushed.
This keris looks like a Palembang (Sumatra) blade, which i believe was already established, so i would not classify it as a Malay blade nor expect the same treatment given to a Malay blade. The only "abuse" i see of this blade os that it needs a cleaning to remove the rust. If i am not mistaken, it would be expected that keris from this region would also receive warangan much the way a Javanese keris would. The surface texture does not look abused (aggressive or otherwise) to me, at least not that i can see in your photos. I would expect a keris from this region to have such a topographical surface as this. Of course, if you are unhappy with the condition of this keris please send it to me immediately and i will give its poor "damaged" self a good home.

28th May 2016, 07:18 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I don't know if this will help or not, but this is the best I could do with the posted photo. Best, Robert Attached Images

28th May 2016, 08:58 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Very unusual mix of features on hilt, like the execution of the waist band. The blade is 40 cm long, so quite long for Palembang. Attached Images

28th May 2016, 09:03 AM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Entire blade. Attached Images

28th May 2016, 09:12 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Because of the unique hilt style and not quite Palembang Mendak it would still look strange in a conventional Palembang sheath. Something like old North Coast Java/Lampung would look perhaps a little bit better, perhaps not. I also doubt, the Mendak and hilt are aesthetically the best mix. Do we see such extensive use of granulation on Mendak in Sumatra? Last edited by Gustav; 28th May 2016 at 09:31 AM.

28th May 2016, 11:56 AM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 320	Here's a few more pics , sorry they are not v clear as they were taken under low light. The inside of the pendokok look dull with suasa tint but on rubbing it, yellow color quickly came out. I don't see any silver but it could very well be gilded as this method of spraying golden layer on base metal is v often done on many malay pendokok... except that the pendokok look rather thin and does not look like a typical malay pendokok. also, i can't put what type of blade this is. does not look typical malay blade..the aggressive abuse (?) of surface texture of the blade by the previous western (?) owner doesn't help. For it could have been previously warangan (which puts it to javanese type) or wasn't. Attached Images

28th May 2016, 08:39 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	This looks like silver now. Is it possible that the yellow tint in the first photo was a reflected colour?

28th May 2016, 01:22 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I agree with you Gustav, this is not a typical Palembang blade, but its not typical of anything I know, certainly not Jawa, and with that kaku blade it doesn't fit easily anywhere, however, there have been some mighty queer keris emerge from South Sumatra, and Palembang dress is as good as any dress that I can imagine to put this into. When trying to make a decision on keris origins and nothing is obvious, we usually play a game of elimination and then see what we have left. If we cannot place this keris with some degree of certainty into one of the big, well-known baskets, then Sumatra is probably where it belongs, and South Sumatra is perhaps the safest dress to use. The problem we face when trying to determine geographic point of origin for keris is this:- once we move away from an area of dominant influence, the rules fly out the door. There is variation upon variation upon variation, and nothing is certain, so we do the best we can under miserable circumstances. I'd still run with Palembang --- unless somebody has a better suggestion? One of the really good indicators with any keris blade is the way in which the ron dha is cut. The ron dha on this keris shows absolutely no consistency of form, and nothing that is identifiable as any known form, but it does show a form that mimics the elements of a correctly cut Palembang or Javanese ron dha, almost as if the maker had seen a correctly made keris and tried to remember what it looked like. Again, the prominent ada-ada, a distinctive feature in some Javanese keris, but not to this extent, and the number of waves? An abomination and an insult. This blade was not made by any empu, nor any pandai keris, it was made by a talented tukang besi at a customer's direction.