How did they measure sword blades?

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2016, 11:11 PM

Jawa/Bali are historically Indianised states.

In both places one of the ways in which to determine suitability of a keris for its owner was/is to measure the length of the blade using various formulas. One of these formulas involves finger width.

The correct blade length is dependent upon the width of each individual owner's fingers. It is not a universal measurement: the blade that is perfect for me might spell disaster for somebody else.

One of the ways in which the actual measurement is done is by laying alternating index fingers on the width of the blade> left finger>right finger>left finger>right finger --- and so on until the point is reached, if you finish with too little remnant to accommodate another finger, or if there is an overhang of the last finger, there are varying schools of thought about how to deal with this.

Jim McDougall · 25th April 2016, 11:31 PM

I had read somewhere that keris were measured using thumb width, but not sure of accuracy of that statement. I have little knowledge on the keris, but do know there is of course an enormous amount of superstition and religious elements at hand in their character. I have always understood the number of luk (waves) were auspicious and certain number might be unlucky.
Also the character of the pamor was key in determining the blade's effect toward the owner. I have always wondered if blades were custom made for clients or if the purchase of blades was purely happenstance and each blade had to be scrutinized for these features' compatibility to each owner.

Naturally the imported blade phenomenon had no effect on the keris in its cultural sphere(s) so that was not a factor in its matters.

Jens, I think you are right, in Indian context the blades were measured along the back of the blade profile. I doubt that European blade producers had any concept of the superstitious matters involved with foreign swords.
Blades were produced according to developing western technologies and much more involved with blades which could be used effectively in both cut and thrust.

A. G. Maisey · 26th April 2016, 09:10 AM

Jim, I know of a number of ways in which keris blades were measured, as I wrote:- "---one of the ways in which to determine suitability ---"

the fingers can be used in various ways, a folded palm leaf, or a length of cord can be used. There are lots of ways.

Sometimes a keris would/will be made to a specific measurement, but if a believer is buying an already made keris he will check measurement before parting with money.

As to "luck", what is lucky for you might be very unlucky for me. The amount of belief surrounding the keris is enormous.

Helleri · 26th April 2016, 11:56 AM

As far as I can see there are 3 reasonable ways to measure the length:
1) Along the spine side.
2) From the base to the tip.
3) Along the edge side (although this last one might require some care).

If we can assume that men of that time had the ability to reason as much as we do (which i think we can). What do you take as your solution when you have 3 results from approaching how you measure things with 3 methods? The reasonable thing to do (usually) is to take the median solution (or the solution that sits between two extremes but may not an exact median). Which begs the question. How long is it along the edge?

Also here is a method I use to measure blades that I included in a response video I made some time ago (I have it cued up to that part of the video): Blue Tape Method

26th April 2016, 11:56 AM	#4
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	As far as I can see there are 3 reasonable ways to measure the length: 1) Along the spine side. 2) From the base to the tip. 3) Along the edge side (although this last one might require some care). If we can assume that men of that time had the ability to reason as much as we do (which i think we can). What do you take as your solution when you have 3 results from approaching how you measure things with 3 methods? The reasonable thing to do (usually) is to take the median solution (or the solution that sits between two extremes but may not an exact median). Which begs the question. How long is it along the edge? Also here is a method I use to measure blades that I included in a response video I made some time ago (I have it cued up to that part of the video): Blue Tape Method Last edited by Helleri; 26th April 2016 at 12:09 PM.

25th April 2016, 11:11 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jawa/Bali are historically Indianised states. In both places one of the ways in which to determine suitability of a keris for its owner was/is to measure the length of the blade using various formulas. One of these formulas involves finger width. The correct blade length is dependent upon the width of each individual owner's fingers. It is not a universal measurement: the blade that is perfect for me might spell disaster for somebody else. One of the ways in which the actual measurement is done is by laying alternating index fingers on the width of the blade> left finger>right finger>left finger>right finger --- and so on until the point is reached, if you finish with too little remnant to accommodate another finger, or if there is an overhang of the last finger, there are varying schools of thought about how to deal with this.

25th April 2016, 11:31 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	I had read somewhere that keris were measured using thumb width, but not sure of accuracy of that statement. I have little knowledge on the keris, but do know there is of course an enormous amount of superstition and religious elements at hand in their character. I have always understood the number of luk (waves) were auspicious and certain number might be unlucky. Also the character of the pamor was key in determining the blade's effect toward the owner. I have always wondered if blades were custom made for clients or if the purchase of blades was purely happenstance and each blade had to be scrutinized for these features' compatibility to each owner. Naturally the imported blade phenomenon had no effect on the keris in its cultural sphere(s) so that was not a factor in its matters. Jens, I think you are right, in Indian context the blades were measured along the back of the blade profile. I doubt that European blade producers had any concept of the superstitious matters involved with foreign swords. Blades were produced according to developing western technologies and much more involved with blades which could be used effectively in both cut and thrust.

26th April 2016, 09:10 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jim, I know of a number of ways in which keris blades were measured, as I wrote:- "---one of the ways in which to determine suitability ---" the fingers can be used in various ways, a folded palm leaf, or a length of cord can be used. There are lots of ways. Sometimes a keris would/will be made to a specific measurement, but if a believer is buying an already made keris he will check measurement before parting with money. As to "luck", what is lucky for you might be very unlucky for me. The amount of belief surrounding the keris is enormous.