Flintlock Pistols With Rare Safety Frizzens, c1740

JamesKelly · 20th April 2016, 04:56 PM

And just why did you remove this old, probably original, finish from your pistols?

As an accumulator (if not collector) of old guns I am very, very pleased when i can get one which has not been "improved" by some other collector/dealer/whatever

I am aware that Europeans like to polish their ancient guns nice and bright, but in the USA some of us view it as heresy.

corrado26 · 20th April 2016, 05:14 PM

Quote:

I am aware that Europeans like to polish their ancient guns nice and bright,

This is absolutely uncorrect. Only some French collectors and especially one French dealer like to improve their pistols and guns by extreme polishing!!
corrado26

fernando · 20th April 2016, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

... I am aware that Europeans like to polish their ancient guns nice and bright ...

Some do, some don't, James; maybe you are not well informed

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

... but in the USA some of us view it as heresy...

Heresy may reside anywhere

.

dana_w · 20th April 2016, 07:21 PM

I talked to a lot of well known collector's before deciding to remove the nasty linseed oil, and I am happy with the results. Anyone else think that they should have been left the way they were?

David R · 20th April 2016, 10:08 PM

The problem with any thick opaque finish is what it may hide underneath. If corrosion has started, or starts later on, the damage can be irreparable before it is noticed.
I would guess that the Linseed oil varnish was originally applied by a previous collector rather than the original user, given how it would interfere with cleaning and maintenance during it's lifetime of use.

Philip · 20th April 2016, 10:57 PM

Dana, the linseed oil was not the original metal finish on the guns, and considering the problems that these caked-on, after-market coatings can cause in the long run, you were right in removing it. This is not analogous to the aggressive treatments used by some collectors and dealers, namely abrading the surface with polishing agents, or enhancing it via re-bluing or redoing the browning.

Pukka Bundook · 21st April 2016, 01:22 PM

I agree with Philip.

This old oil may have been applied over the centuries to prevent rust, maybe not linseed, as all old oil will gum and solidify in time.
We often see this accumulation. A little can look very nice, but if it starts to cloud the appearance and gum up the works, it's best removed and as Philp said, has nothing to do with any original finish.

Of course, a light oiling afterwards is again required............starting the process over again? :-)

Philip · 22nd April 2016, 05:16 AM

Using oil on an iron or steel surface is better than no protection at all. But think of the downsides:
1. It comes off on your fingers (or soils your curatorial cotton gloves) as you handle the piece. Worse, it can smear onto the wood stock and over time cause it to darken in places when accumulations soak into the grain.
2. Over time, it can harden and form a nasty gunk which is likely to cause its own set of problems, as has been discussed heretofore.
3. On guns that are displayed out in the open (i.e. on wall mounts or atop a shelf) and are not periodically wiped, oil attracts dust and while it slowly dries out, the dust attracts atmospheric moisture like a wick, and the metal eventually rusts.

You can avoid these problems by using a high-quality wax in lieu of oil. "Renaissance Wax" is a popular brand, but I have had excellent results with more mundane equivalents, like a good carnauba-based automotive wax, or the household standby, Johnson's paste wax (designed for furniture, it's good for the stock as well). Remove oil from surface before waxing, and use a toothbrush or toothpick to remove excess buildup from crevices and screw slots after wiping with a soft cloth. A wax finish lasts a long time, I've gone several years before having to renew it (although I live in an arid part of the country, you might want to do it more frequently if your climate is damp or you live by the seashore).

A good time to wax a gun is when it's all apart, you can catch the underside of the barrel, the parts of iron fittings that nest in stock recesses, and of course the screw threads. Oil still has its place, to lubricate the mechanical contact points. If you make it a point to scrub and clean the bore, do the same as you would do for a sporting gun, but it's best to reserve that operation for when the barrel is detached from the stock so that bore cleaning solvent (and the suspended rust and gunk) don't drip onto the wood.

20th April 2016, 07:21 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 436	I talked to a lot of well known collector's before deciding to remove the nasty linseed oil, and I am happy with the results. Anyone else think that they should have been left the way they were? Last edited by dana_w; 21st April 2016 at 02:34 AM.

22nd April 2016, 05:16 AM	#8
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	the alternative to oil Using oil on an iron or steel surface is better than no protection at all. But think of the downsides: 1. It comes off on your fingers (or soils your curatorial cotton gloves) as you handle the piece. Worse, it can smear onto the wood stock and over time cause it to darken in places when accumulations soak into the grain. 2. Over time, it can harden and form a nasty gunk which is likely to cause its own set of problems, as has been discussed heretofore. 3. On guns that are displayed out in the open (i.e. on wall mounts or atop a shelf) and are not periodically wiped, oil attracts dust and while it slowly dries out, the dust attracts atmospheric moisture like a wick, and the metal eventually rusts. You can avoid these problems by using a high-quality wax in lieu of oil. "Renaissance Wax" is a popular brand, but I have had excellent results with more mundane equivalents, like a good carnauba-based automotive wax, or the household standby, Johnson's paste wax (designed for furniture, it's good for the stock as well). Remove oil from surface before waxing, and use a toothbrush or toothpick to remove excess buildup from crevices and screw slots after wiping with a soft cloth. A wax finish lasts a long time, I've gone several years before having to renew it (although I live in an arid part of the country, you might want to do it more frequently if your climate is damp or you live by the seashore). A good time to wax a gun is when it's all apart, you can catch the underside of the barrel, the parts of iron fittings that nest in stock recesses, and of course the screw threads. Oil still has its place, to lubricate the mechanical contact points. If you make it a point to scrub and clean the bore, do the same as you would do for a sporting gun, but it's best to reserve that operation for when the barrel is detached from the stock so that bore cleaning solvent (and the suspended rust and gunk) don't drip onto the wood.

20th April 2016, 04:56 PM	#1
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	And just why did you remove this old, probably original, finish from your pistols? As an accumulator (if not collector) of old guns I am very, very pleased when i can get one which has not been "improved" by some other collector/dealer/whatever I am aware that Europeans like to polish their ancient guns nice and bright, but in the USA some of us view it as heresy.

20th April 2016, 10:08 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	The problem with any thick opaque finish is what it may hide underneath. If corrosion has started, or starts later on, the damage can be irreparable before it is noticed. I would guess that the Linseed oil varnish was originally applied by a previous collector rather than the original user, given how it would interfere with cleaning and maintenance during it's lifetime of use.

20th April 2016, 10:57 PM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Dana, the linseed oil was not the original metal finish on the guns, and considering the problems that these caked-on, after-market coatings can cause in the long run, you were right in removing it. This is not analogous to the aggressive treatments used by some collectors and dealers, namely abrading the surface with polishing agents, or enhancing it via re-bluing or redoing the browning.

21st April 2016, 01:22 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I agree with Philip. This old oil may have been applied over the centuries to prevent rust, maybe not linseed, as all old oil will gum and solidify in time. We often see this accumulation. A little can look very nice, but if it starts to cloud the appearance and gum up the works, it's best removed and as Philp said, has nothing to do with any original finish. Of course, a light oiling afterwards is again required............starting the process over again? :-)