....but is this ivory?

David · 20th April 2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

please do not ask me to do hot pin test as the mendak is firmly glued to the hilt

Glue can be softened and loosened by an application of heat. Is the hilt also glued to the blade?

Bob A · 20th April 2016, 09:10 PM

I suspect the blackened hilt was done so as to provide a background against which the raised portion of the carving could more easily be read/distinguished. Wearing down the raised edges to remove the blacking would occur naturally through use, or could simply be polished off. I find it a visually pleasant artifice.

Green · 21st April 2016, 08:34 AM

David,

the hilt can be removed easily but it came off with the mendak so i could not do hot pin test at the base.

But I figured if the hilt is from resin material it doesn't really matter if it is destroyed by hot pin prick , so i decided to do a hot pin test on the black part of the hilt but it did not melt or gave any burnt mark. I felt quite good but then decided to do the same on one of my rencong hilts that I know was made from resin material. But the pin did not melt the resin either.

Apparently the resin can be very heat resistant or my pin was not hot enough.
So, still no conclusion and I'd leave it at that. Ignorance is bliss - as they say...

Roland_M · 21st April 2016, 11:48 AM

[QUOTE=Green]
Apparently the resin can be very heat resistant or my pin was not hot enough.
QUOTE]

I have an early 20th century Afghan choora with an orange Bakelite hilt, probably as an ivory imitation. Bakelite is a thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin and resistant to heat. The hot pin test will be unsuccessful with Bakelite.

If you have a strong flashlight, you can hold it directly under the hilt and check, whether it is translucent or not. If the hilt is translucent without any structures inside, it is synthetic resin.

I do not believe in a resin, because it is very difficult, to create a resin with different shades of color like on your hilt.

Roland

Jean · 21st April 2016, 08:47 PM

This hilt was probably dyed in black, hence the color shades. If you have access to the pesi hole and if the selut hole is larger than the pesi hole, gently grind the pesi hole with a drilling bit and smell it: if it smells like burned bone it is ivory, if not it is resin.
A black light lamp should better be used for differentating ivory from resin as not all types of resins are translucent.
Regards

Green · 22nd April 2016, 04:37 AM

Jean,

That's a good idea about getting a bit of powder from the pesi hole. I'll get one of the hilt makers here to try and do that next month when I visit him... and see how it goes...

Green · 22nd April 2016, 04:50 AM

One further Q though,

Do resin or bakelite or other plastic type non ivory materials give cracks and hair line fractures like in the pics below?

22nd April 2016, 04:50 AM	#7
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	One further Q though, Do resin or bakelite or other plastic type non ivory materials give cracks and hair line fractures like in the pics below? Attached Images

20th April 2016, 09:10 PM	#2
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 436	I suspect the blackened hilt was done so as to provide a background against which the raised portion of the carving could more easily be read/distinguished. Wearing down the raised edges to remove the blacking would occur naturally through use, or could simply be polished off. I find it a visually pleasant artifice.

21st April 2016, 08:34 AM	#3
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	David, the hilt can be removed easily but it came off with the mendak so i could not do hot pin test at the base. But I figured if the hilt is from resin material it doesn't really matter if it is destroyed by hot pin prick , so i decided to do a hot pin test on the black part of the hilt but it did not melt or gave any burnt mark. I felt quite good but then decided to do the same on one of my rencong hilts that I know was made from resin material. But the pin did not melt the resin either. Apparently the resin can be very heat resistant or my pin was not hot enough. So, still no conclusion and I'd leave it at that. Ignorance is bliss - as they say...

21st April 2016, 11:48 AM	#4
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	[QUOTE=Green] Apparently the resin can be very heat resistant or my pin was not hot enough. QUOTE] I have an early 20th century Afghan choora with an orange Bakelite hilt, probably as an ivory imitation. Bakelite is a thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin and resistant to heat. The hot pin test will be unsuccessful with Bakelite. If you have a strong flashlight, you can hold it directly under the hilt and check, whether it is translucent or not. If the hilt is translucent without any structures inside, it is synthetic resin. I do not believe in a resin, because it is very difficult, to create a resin with different shades of color like on your hilt. Roland

21st April 2016, 08:47 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This hilt was probably dyed in black, hence the color shades. If you have access to the pesi hole and if the selut hole is larger than the pesi hole, gently grind the pesi hole with a drilling bit and smell it: if it smells like burned bone it is ivory, if not it is resin. A black light lamp should better be used for differentating ivory from resin as not all types of resins are translucent. Regards

22nd April 2016, 04:37 AM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	Jean, That's a good idea about getting a bit of powder from the pesi hole. I'll get one of the hilt makers here to try and do that next month when I visit him... and see how it goes...