Russian Khyber knife

[AJ1356]

It is quite possible, I think king Abdul Rahman was in Russia before coming to power, or something like that. My history is a bit fuzzy right now. I know later on Soviet made weapons were the norm in Afghan army, post WWII.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

It is quite possible, I think king Abdul Rahman was in Russia before coming to power, or something like that. My history is a bit fuzzy right now. I know later on Soviet made weapons were the norm in Afghan army, post WWII.

Abdurrahman was in Russia, but only in Bukhara (which at that time belonged to the Russian) And Zlatoust and Bukhara are located far from each other. In addition, Abdurrahman did not have such influence, that for him to Zlatoust specially made Afghan weapon with Russian stamps.

Do you know about the production of weapons for Afghanistan in the Soviet Union? ))))) It would be very interesting. Maybe you are talking about deliveries of Russian weapons to the Afghan army?

And here's another question. Do you think that this the Khyber knife is not made in Afghanistan? In your option it produced in Russia?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

It is quite possible, I think king Abdul Rahman was in Russia before coming to power, or something like that. My history is a bit fuzzy right now. I know later on Soviet made weapons were the norm in Afghan army, post WWII.

Well, in this particular case we are dealing with a pre-1917 revolutionary Zlatoust, as evidenced by the orthography and the double-headed eagle.
What alternative explanations do we have?
1. old Afghans stole the stamping device from Zlatoust. What for? Would wild Pushtuns give a dam about having a Russia-made weapon?
2. old Khyber was recently re-branded with a fake device. But then, again what for? This would not increase the value of the sword and, indeed, it did not sell despite being priced in line with other khybers. And it did not come from Russia.
3. A traveling Zlatoust salesman showing his samples to Gilzais or Khazara? No comment:-)
4. An order of some CA khan, a vassal of the Tsar, for a batch of Zlatoust blades for his Royal butchers?

Anything else?

Old Roman approach " Qui prodest?", Who benefits? doesn't seem to help.

I am confused.....

This stamp is a real curveball.

[mahratt]

We have a modern stamp) ) ) And all further discussion of the subject - science fiction in the style of Bradbury and Moorcock ) ) ) ) )

Why put a modern stamp on the old Khyber knife - it is a mystery. Versions can be many. From a simple joke. Prior to check stamp. That is, maybe someone before you put a stamp on a modern copy of Russian weapons, decided to practice on a cheap Khyber knife.

[ariel]

Folks,
Please look at the small stamp in the lower left corner of the upper pic I presented: it was taken from the academic site of Zlatoust markings and one can find it in the reference I provided.
Personal opinions of some Russian Forumites are interesting, but not of the same evidentiary value.
Showing a modern copy of a stamping device is also educational, but we still do not know what stamp it leaves.

Thus the Jury ( you) is still out . We have a material object: Khyber with a Russian stamp. This is a fact. Are there additional facts, both pro and con, rather than speculations of uncertain validity?

[mahratt]

Please show an example of Russian weapons with a stamp identical stamp in Afghanistan Khyber. While those stamps that you have shown very different (stamp on the Afghan Khyber gives double contour picture). This is clearly seen in the photo from the post number 9.

[TVV]

I am sorry but this looks to me like an old blade with a fake modern stamp as well. Just because the item failed to achieve a high price, does not mean there was no such intent by whoever put the stamp on. The fact tat it failed to sell seems to indicate that most buyers were put off by the marking.

Teodor

[ariel]

Teodor,
I mentioned its asking price just to assure the audience that the seller was not grotesquely unreasonable; he asked a price comparable or even lower than many other similar items. Still, the seller's listing price, although extremely modest in absolute terms, was IMHO too high : khybers of similar quality have been sold ( not listed!) for ~ $100-200 less, not nearly enough to justify selling a fake and ruining his reputations as a respected dealer.


It surely does not mean IMHO that potential buyers were turned off by the stamp.


I acknowledge comments of Russian collectors, but the mark is identical to the pic ( small rectangle , lower left corner of the upper pic of my examples) that is taken from the official academic, referenced Russian site. Thus, we have academic document against personal opinions.

I see nothing that would convince me that the Khyber stamp is a fake: no difference in execution, no reason for the seller to gain anything from a forgery.

I have no dog in this fight: I did not buy this Khyber, nor do I intend to. This is just a puzzling historical query. If somebody here with a genuine knowledge and factual evidence proves that the stamp is a fake, I shall be only delighted to learn something new.

Thus, I view this issue as still open.

With best wishes.