Fake blades from India and China

[ariel]

Well, as we all know, there are literally hundreds and thousands of arms and armor pieces coming from India to e-bay, and from there being re-sold all over.

There are 3 major groups: rusty and often broken tulwar handles and daggers of unknown purpose; combination pieces, mainly old and rusty handle ( see above) and newly-made blade; and flagrantly new and pretentiously lavish objects that are presented as "old", "antique", "mughal" etc.

Yes, India just like China bans exportation of antiques. But being a democratic country, Indian laws and punishments are likely to be not as draconian as in China. Thus, it must be easier and safer for them to mail real antiques of lesser or absent historical value.


As to the "lavish" ones, one needs to remember that what seems to be lavish to us, is likely to be dirt cheap to manufacture in India due to their low labor costs. Also, there are plenty of highly qualified masters capable of doing really good job for very little money. And, finally, asking prices are rising like crazy: what was offered for $10 several years ago, nowadays is offered for hundreds and thousands. Although many items can be bought with an offer not exceeding 10-20% of the listing price, giving a good idea of their intended profit margin.

In my experience, 99.999% of really good and old stuff comes from Europe/USA ( likely originally also from Europe) as remnants of the colonial era. IMHO, buying antique weapons from India is foolish: one will end either with a piece of junk of with a newly-made souvenir.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, as we all know, there are literally hundreds and thousands of arms and armor pieces coming from India to e-bay, and from there being re-sold all over.

There are 3 major groups: rusty and often broken tulwar handles and daggers of unknown purpose; combination pieces, mainly old and rusty handle ( see above) and newly-made blade; and flagrantly new and pretentiously lavish objects that are presented as "old", "antique", "mughal" etc.

Yes, India just like China bans exportation of antiques. But being a democratic country, Indian laws and punishments are likely to be not as draconian as in China. Thus, it must be easier and safer for them to mail real antiques of lesser or absent historical value.


As to the "lavish" ones, one needs to remember that what seems to be lavish to us, is likely to be dirt cheap to manufacture in India due to their low labor costs. Also, there are plenty of highly qualified masters capable of doing really good job for very little money. And, finally, asking prices are rising like crazy: what was offered for $10 several years ago, nowadays is offered for hundreds and thousands. Although many items can be bought with an offer not exceeding 10-20% of the listing price, giving a good idea of their intended profit margin.

In my experience, 99.999% of really good and old stuff comes from Europe/USA ( likely originally also from Europe) as remnants of the colonial era. IMHO, buying antique weapons from India is foolish: one will end either with a piece of junk of with a newly-made souvenir.

china .. you can pretty much export at will out of the country.. but there is little there. chinese mostly under the manchus were not permitted side arms..
mostly its ethic minority stuff or very crude all the good stuff was destroyed or in museums and government collections.. or the very old like bronze stuff.. risky to buy and no really knowledgeable collectors in china so no very good references..
ethnic minority items are the way to go.. sending them is easy . put in package and send.. no problems..but the areas where these are available are very isolated and in big chinese cities prices are.. humorous..

moving from autonomous zones where there is a large military presence into Chinese areas can result in seizure though, as things like knives swords ect in china are actually technically illegal and even their production needs permits. !!! crazy but its really ever enforce to outsiders or even locals. ..

india its the worst for exporting antique stuff. you never know if its going to get blocked.. if it looks nice there is a good chance it might. it is rought like the stuff on ebay mostly ok.

where as china dosnt care what people export.. drugs.. weapons.. organs.. anything you want.. disruption is bad for business. .. they dont care.

in india the customs people see it as a profitable business to check everything..

[mariusgmioc]

Talking about antique Chinese blades coming from China

Why would a Chinese dealer try to sell a genuine antique Chinese blade on eBay, to a Western buyer, thus violating the Chinese law and risking very harsh punishment, when he can get a much higher price in China from one of the thousands of newly rich Chinese?!

PS: Prices for genuine Chinese antiques have gone over the roof in recent years precisely because of this new category of very rich Chinese collectors.

PPS: When I went to Japan, I was considering buying some nice pieces of Japanese antique Satsuma, Kutani and Imari pottery, only to find out that in Japan they are priced about 5 to 10 times more than in Europe or the US.

[josh stout]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Talking about antique Chinese blades coming from China

Why would a Chinese dealer try to sell a genuine antique Chinese blade on eBay, to a Western buyer, thus violating the Chinese law and risking very harsh punishment, when he can get a much higher price in China from one of the thousands of newly rich Chinese?!

PS: Prices for genuine Chinese antiques have gone over the roof in recent years precisely because of this new category of very rich Chinese collectors.

PPS: When I went to Japan, I was considering buying some nice pieces of Japanese antique Satsuma, Kutani and Imari pottery, only to find out that in Japan they are priced about 5 to 10 times more than in Europe or the US.

The business can be very strange. There was a time in the early 2000s when I bought a few antiques from China and then sold them back at twice the price. At the time I assumed that the price increase was due to to the greater likelihood of genuine items being from America as opposed to those found in China. There are circles of very knowledgeable Chinese collectors who know each other's items, and sell them at more reasonable prices to each other. If they catch an American posting a picture, they will be angry at whoever sold it. Since 2008 it has been illegal for Americans to import Chinese antiques, not just for the Chinese to export them.

The truly high quality stuff has been essentially locked up since the 90s. I had a fun decade hunting village militia items made from quality steel, but even those are now reproductions, in relic condition and overpriced. Sometimes you will see something that is all three.

[ariel]

I really enjoy learning different perspectives.
Thank you, guys!