The Size of the Keris

A. G. Maisey · 12th April 2016, 11:44 PM

Actually David, I think that Roland may have given us some very valuable, previously unknown information.

His mention of duels in times past that involved the use of the keris is something I have no knowledge of. In fact, there is no system of fence that was ever taught for the keris, at least in Jawa. The way a keris, or for that matter any weapon is used is to conceal intent until the last moment and then kill the target as quickly and cleanly as possible, before he even knows that he is threatened.

I've seen Indonesian historical soapies where duels proliferate, but that's TV entertainment, not reality.

The mention of duels in the current era is also something unknown to me. For the life of me, I cannot imagine who the protagonists would be. Certainly not any member of the aristocracy, such crude behaviour is something that would see any aristocrat who was involved in it subjected to social exclusion.

In the lower orders of society, especially amongst manual workers and rural workers very savage fights are not uncommon, but the weapon mostly used in those fights is the celurit, simply because it is the weapon that is usually close at hand.

Present day duels with the keris?

Who?

When?

Where?

Yes, previously unknown, and thus valuable information.

David · 13th April 2016, 03:42 AM

Alan, i believe there are many schools of Silat that teach the keris as a martial weapon with established fencing forms. Perhaps this is what Roland is alluding to. I am not certain whether that notion is what has the inspired the Indonesian "soapies" or if it was the other way around.

A. G. Maisey · 13th April 2016, 05:48 AM

Yes David, the keris is a weapon that is used in Pencak Silat, and in other related SE Asian martial art forms, and within this sphere there is an etiquette and mythology attached to the keris. Some schools will not permit a student to own a keris until the student has reached a particular level.

However, this is not Javanese society --- nor any of the other Indonesian societies.

I sincerely doubt that it is the use of a keris as an implement employed in PS that inspired the soapies. I'd guess it is more likely that the Indonesian mock history TV dramas were inspired by westerns out of Hollywood, or maybe Japanese Samurai films. They would use Javanese myths and legends and dramatise them in very lavish fashion with keris fights that were straight out of movies like "Gunfight at the OK Corral" & etc.

They can be good fun to watch --- as long as you don't confuse them with reality.

Actually, Ole Wyatt was a man whose method of combat was in many instances pretty much in line with the Javanese way of doing things and with Sun Tzu too, for that matter:- whack 'em quick, whack 'em hard and before they even know they're gonna get whacked. Well, at least from what I've read of him, that's the way he preferred to do it --- as would any self respecting sensible person.

12th April 2016, 11:44 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,029	Actually David, I think that Roland may have given us some very valuable, previously unknown information. His mention of duels in times past that involved the use of the keris is something I have no knowledge of. In fact, there is no system of fence that was ever taught for the keris, at least in Jawa. The way a keris, or for that matter any weapon is used is to conceal intent until the last moment and then kill the target as quickly and cleanly as possible, before he even knows that he is threatened. I've seen Indonesian historical soapies where duels proliferate, but that's TV entertainment, not reality. The mention of duels in the current era is also something unknown to me. For the life of me, I cannot imagine who the protagonists would be. Certainly not any member of the aristocracy, such crude behaviour is something that would see any aristocrat who was involved in it subjected to social exclusion. In the lower orders of society, especially amongst manual workers and rural workers very savage fights are not uncommon, but the weapon mostly used in those fights is the celurit, simply because it is the weapon that is usually close at hand. Present day duels with the keris? Who? When? Where? Yes, previously unknown, and thus valuable information.

13th April 2016, 03:42 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Alan, i believe there are many schools of Silat that teach the keris as a martial weapon with established fencing forms. Perhaps this is what Roland is alluding to. I am not certain whether that notion is what has the inspired the Indonesian "soapies" or if it was the other way around.

13th April 2016, 05:48 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,029	Yes David, the keris is a weapon that is used in Pencak Silat, and in other related SE Asian martial art forms, and within this sphere there is an etiquette and mythology attached to the keris. Some schools will not permit a student to own a keris until the student has reached a particular level. However, this is not Javanese society --- nor any of the other Indonesian societies. I sincerely doubt that it is the use of a keris as an implement employed in PS that inspired the soapies. I'd guess it is more likely that the Indonesian mock history TV dramas were inspired by westerns out of Hollywood, or maybe Japanese Samurai films. They would use Javanese myths and legends and dramatise them in very lavish fashion with keris fights that were straight out of movies like "Gunfight at the OK Corral" & etc. They can be good fun to watch --- as long as you don't confuse them with reality. Actually, Ole Wyatt was a man whose method of combat was in many instances pretty much in line with the Javanese way of doing things and with Sun Tzu too, for that matter:- whack 'em quick, whack 'em hard and before they even know they're gonna get whacked. Well, at least from what I've read of him, that's the way he preferred to do it --- as would any self respecting sensible person.