European blades in India

[Jens Nordlunde]

I doubt that the hilt is older than the blade, to my opinion it is rather the opposite.
The 'arm bands' could very well be added later, and would have added a lot to the stability when the sword was used.

What would interest me to know is, if the seller told from where in India the sword came, and why he thinks so?

Jens

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I doubt that the hilt is older than the blade, to my opinion it is rather the opposite.
The 'arm bands' could very well be added later, and would have added a lot to the stability when the sword was used.

What would interest me to know is, if the seller told from where in India the sword came, and why he thinks so?

Jens

Well noted Jens, and as you say, it makes good sense that if this katar hilt was to have a full length sword blade, then the arm bands would be essential. In the pata, these same kinds of bands are riveted at the top of the hilt to secure the forearm, while the hand holds the transverse grip.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I doubt that the hilt is older than the blade, to my opinion it is rather the opposite.

You would have a better idea about this than I do. I was just assuming that the hilt was not originally made for this blade which may have been added at a later date. As you say, the blade may actually be older than the hilt.

[dralin23]

hi there,
sorry tho the late raplay, but i was the last some days to busy to visit the threads in the forum.
yes, i think also that these armbands are an later aditional feature. these bands was made from silver and i think also that they should give the upperarm more stiffnes when these katar was used in the fight.
the length of these blade is 80cm , and the wide of the blade before the hilt is 34 mm.
i was also searching for more informations about the knecht family.
i found very different informations about the time of their working.
the name "knegt" is an older example of the name "Knecht" . the name "Knecht"
is more modern.
as i wrote, i was looking in the www. and also in the book from stafan Kinman about european makers of edged weapons and their marks. i found no one exampel from an blade with the name "Knegt".
i was asking directly in the "Solingen Swordmuseum" as i hope that i found something more informations about the maker from these blade there.
the answer was that these kind of solingen stamp with the anchor was made untill the 17.th.ct. and the name knegt is an indicate that it was made from one member of the knecht family.
i hope i will find sometime an other exampel with an identic mark.
i´m happy about it!! it is now one of my hairloms in the collection.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by dralin23

hi there,
sorry tho the late raplay, but i was the last some days to busy to visit the threads in the forum.
yes, i think also that these armbands are an later aditional feature. these bands was made from silver and i think also that they should give the upperarm more stiffnes when these katar was used in the fight.
the length of these blade is 80cm , and the wide of the blade before the hilt is 34 mm.
i was also searching for more informations about the knecht family.
i found very different informations about the time of their working.
the name "knegt" is an older example of the name "Knecht" . the name "Knecht"
is more modern.
as i wrote, i was looking in the www. and also in the book from stafan Kinman about european makers of edged weapons and their marks. i found no one exampel from an blade with the name "Knegt".
i was asking directly in the "Solingen Swordmuseum" as i hope that i found something more informations about the maker from these blade there.
the answer was that these kind of solingen stamp with the anchor was made untill the 17.th.ct. and the name knegt is an indicate that it was made from one member of the knecht family.
i hope i will find sometime an other exampel with an identic mark.
i´m happy about it!! it is now one of my hairloms in the collection.

As indicated in my earlier post, the spelling of Knegt is in my view the more archaic form of the name which became much better known as the family of purveyors of swords much later.
The style of lettering, the anchor and other accompanying marks suggest this is indeed a very old blade, and which was joined with this katar hilt with the arm bands added as noted to add support.

It is good to see the Kinman reference being noted, as this is one of the most useful references to come into the literature on blade markings for many years. I was pretty sure if the KNEGT was not listed there it would not be among all the other now long venerated sources, which cross checked proved true.

This sword certainly would seem to me to be a Deccani example, as this katar style most closely resembles those forms, and this weapon would have been used in sweeping, slashing type attacks, thus the bracing of the arm bands.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I doubt that the hilt is older than the blade, to my opinion it is rather the opposite.
The 'arm bands' could very well be added later, and would have added a lot to the stability when the sword was used.

What would interest me to know is, if the seller told from where in India the sword came, and why he thinks so?

Jens

Having looked at various designs of Katar hilts I think that this hilt may well be a 17th C one and that the forearm support bands rather than being an add on are a replacement for the original bands which would have been of a finer quality than the ones shown fitted now. Just a thought.
Miguel