Markings on a Takouba-mounted European Backsword

Iain · 19th March 2016, 11:31 PM

An intriguing one! I'll hold off on detailed comments until I can see better images, but this has some interesting features like the brass at the base of the blade.

A pity about the condition of the blade, somewhat relic condition, but I still see a lot of appeal to the piece.

I think you will find that the blade has been modified to be two edged.

I'll be interested to see details when you have it in hand. I am jealous that I didn't see it first!

blue lander · 20th March 2016, 12:04 AM

Thanks! I was a little surprised you didn't snap it up, I figured it was too ratty for your collection. At least the "interesting" part of the blade is intact.

Iain · 20th March 2016, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Thanks! I was a little surprised you didn't snap it up, I figured it was too ratty for your collection. At least the "interesting" part of the blade is intact.

I simply didn't see it!

needless to say if you tire of it....

Jim McDougall · 20th March 2016, 01:52 AM

Now this is very interesting, especially as it is well established that the single edge blade is rather an anomaly among North African swords, as the broadsword is obviously favored. However, we know that with the brisk trade in blades through various entrepots there were occasions where these became mingled in the volume in whatever small degree.

We know that many blades, despite the more dominant input from Solingen, actually likely came from Italian sources which confluenced with the other trade networks inbound on occasion.

I would suspect this to be possibly a schiavona blade and of latter quarter 18th c. I will here go out on a limb with the inscription on the blade,
'ZACONA TOSCIANA'.
Clearly the Tosciana refers to Tuscany, but I would offer the speculation that the 'zacona' may relate to the Croatian/Slovenian word 'zakona' which loosely refers to 'law'.
We know that in Venice, the famed bodyguards of the Doge consisted largely of Dalmatian (Croatian) forces, and that the schiavona (indeed termed for this nationality) was quite well known in their use.
Perhaps this inscription might relate to some force or unit in Tuscany with some legal or enforcement capacity?

Whatever the case, this blade's terrible condition may be testament to its having been in this hilt for a very long time, thus, one of the much sought after early takouba with European blade. I would rely here on Iain's view on the character and likely age of the hilt.

My question would be otherwise, why would someone mount a virtual relic condition blade in a takouba? The tribesmen in these regions take great pride in their takouba, and would deem such a sword very poorly.

blue lander · 20th March 2016, 02:58 AM

Another possible scenario is that some African merchant mounted a rusty old blade in a new hilt purely to sell to tourists, but the hilt seems just as corroded as the blade. Seems they've been togeather since before all the damage happened. Here's two more pictures of the hilt from the auction.

Jim McDougall · 20th March 2016, 05:34 AM

That is of course always possible, but that is a thing collectors have pretty much always contended with . As far as I have known however, these types would avoid using what is clearly regarded a rather pitiful blade as its marketability would be compromised.
As I mentioned, the hilt seems quite old as well, and Iain would have the final say on that as he knows these swords better than anyone .

Iain · 20th March 2016, 11:19 AM

The hilt is old, although not the oldest style I think we can identify. I think it has been with the blade since it was first mounted.

It is very hard to put a date to the hilt styles other than old, older, oldest type classification.

You have what I tend to think of as the second oldest style. The pommel is large but more of a lozenge shape than rounded. A medial ridge is defined. The guard is not boxy, but rather a wing shape, swelling where it meets the grip. The grip tube is round, not multi faceted.

Zacona I think will refer to the town, the phrase would be odd in Serbian or Croatian and in any case would require a K not a C. The blade is of a type that was widely exported including the well known firangi swords of India.I own one similar, see attached. I think the blade can be older than the 18th century, but I am not the best for dating this blade style. Better images will help when it arrives.

I am including images of what I would consider to be older hilt styles as well, hopefully what I am describing is visible from these images. In any case I think the blade and hilt are an authentic and original marriage and the sword is an excellent example of a hilt that has been with the blade for a very long time.

20th March 2016, 02:58 AM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Another possible scenario is that some African merchant mounted a rusty old blade in a new hilt purely to sell to tourists, but the hilt seems just as corroded as the blade. Seems they've been togeather since before all the damage happened. Here's two more pictures of the hilt from the auction. Attached Images

20th March 2016, 11:19 AM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	The hilt is old, although not the oldest style I think we can identify. I think it has been with the blade since it was first mounted. It is very hard to put a date to the hilt styles other than old, older, oldest type classification. You have what I tend to think of as the second oldest style. The pommel is large but more of a lozenge shape than rounded. A medial ridge is defined. The guard is not boxy, but rather a wing shape, swelling where it meets the grip. The grip tube is round, not multi faceted. Zacona I think will refer to the town, the phrase would be odd in Serbian or Croatian and in any case would require a K not a C. The blade is of a type that was widely exported including the well known firangi swords of India.I own one similar, see attached. I think the blade can be older than the 18th century, but I am not the best for dating this blade style. Better images will help when it arrives. I am including images of what I would consider to be older hilt styles as well, hopefully what I am describing is visible from these images. In any case I think the blade and hilt are an authentic and original marriage and the sword is an excellent example of a hilt that has been with the blade for a very long time. Attached Images

19th March 2016, 11:31 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	An intriguing one! I'll hold off on detailed comments until I can see better images, but this has some interesting features like the brass at the base of the blade. A pity about the condition of the blade, somewhat relic condition, but I still see a lot of appeal to the piece. I think you will find that the blade has been modified to be two edged. I'll be interested to see details when you have it in hand. I am jealous that I didn't see it first!

20th March 2016, 12:04 AM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks! I was a little surprised you didn't snap it up, I figured it was too ratty for your collection. At least the "interesting" part of the blade is intact.

20th March 2016, 01:52 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Now this is very interesting, especially as it is well established that the single edge blade is rather an anomaly among North African swords, as the broadsword is obviously favored. However, we know that with the brisk trade in blades through various entrepots there were occasions where these became mingled in the volume in whatever small degree. We know that many blades, despite the more dominant input from Solingen, actually likely came from Italian sources which confluenced with the other trade networks inbound on occasion. I would suspect this to be possibly a schiavona blade and of latter quarter 18th c. I will here go out on a limb with the inscription on the blade, 'ZACONA TOSCIANA'. Clearly the Tosciana refers to Tuscany, but I would offer the speculation that the 'zacona' may relate to the Croatian/Slovenian word 'zakona' which loosely refers to 'law'. We know that in Venice, the famed bodyguards of the Doge consisted largely of Dalmatian (Croatian) forces, and that the schiavona (indeed termed for this nationality) was quite well known in their use. Perhaps this inscription might relate to some force or unit in Tuscany with some legal or enforcement capacity? Whatever the case, this blade's terrible condition may be testament to its having been in this hilt for a very long time, thus, one of the much sought after early takouba with European blade. I would rely here on Iain's view on the character and likely age of the hilt. My question would be otherwise, why would someone mount a virtual relic condition blade in a takouba? The tribesmen in these regions take great pride in their takouba, and would deem such a sword very poorly.

20th March 2016, 05:34 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	That is of course always possible, but that is a thing collectors have pretty much always contended with . As far as I have known however, these types would avoid using what is clearly regarded a rather pitiful blade as its marketability would be compromised. As I mentioned, the hilt seems quite old as well, and Iain would have the final say on that as he knows these swords better than anyone .