Strange engraved Keris blade.

Jean · 12th March 2016, 12:05 PM

Hello Athanase,
Welcome to the forum!
I have no doubt that this blade is old but because of the shiny surface the carved motifs and potential pamor are not very visible. In order to improve the surface look and remove the rust spots, I would advise you to clean the blade by dipping it completely in undiluted vinegar (8°) or 10% citric acid (or a mix of the 2 products) for about 24 h with 2 intermediate brushings, which would not attack the iron/ steel itself. After treating, carefully rinse & dry the blade, and treat it immediately with WD40 for preserving it from future rusting.
Regards

David · 12th March 2016, 04:27 PM

Thanks for your more in-depth analysis Alan. Precisely why i asked for those additional views.
Can you comment any further on the nature of such keris? Iron Ancestors makes a vague reference on pg. 186 to a small Bali keris with wayang carvings that was used to make holy water for the Odalam festival. I have no way of verifying such a statement. Obvious as we move more into later era creation such keris are likely created more as art objects, but considering this one seems to be at least pre-WWII is it at all likely it was created for some specific ritual purpose?

Athanase · 12th March 2016, 08:54 PM

On the internet I saw this keris which is similar :

http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/21837

A. G. Maisey · 12th March 2016, 11:41 PM

Gustav, there are several things that have caught my attention with the pesi, and measured against characteristics of blades that I know to be truly old, they just don't fit. The thickness of the pesi base compared to the thickness of the actual pesi itself is not uncommon, but in this keris the shoulder of that thicker section appears to have a radius, which indicates extreme attention to detail and something I cannot recall ever having seen previously. Additionally, the tip of the pesi appears to have a very slight swelling, not something that is common in very old blades. In short, this pesi does not strike me as having the appearance of something that I would expect to see on a really old keris.

It is very obvious that the pesi has been freshly filed for some reason or other, maybe to fit the mendak as suggested by Athanase, and this fresh filing is not a part of my considerations, it could as easily appear in a keris made last week as in one made many years ago.

I actually don't know of any specific "sign" that will indicate an older keris, or the comparative age of any keris. Something that came out of its native society 300 or 400 hundred years ago can look virtually brand new if stored carefully in a European collection.

I have based my opinion on the comparison of this keris with the many other keris I have seen over the years, especially comparison with keris of a similar style. Bear this in mind: stylistically this keris is Tuban. Tuban was a trading port, it was not a kraton, and keris from the hinterland and from the north coast were taken to Tuban for sale and for export. This keris has been made to satisfy a market demand, not to conform with the dictates of a royally approved style. I also cannot forget the many keris of this type that I saw with dealers in Jawa during the 1970's, and the virtual disappearance of this style in the market-place at the present time.

However, above all I must emphasise that my opinion could change if I handled this object:-

"--- Based upon what I believe I can see in these photographs ---"

David, I cannot answer your question, because I do not know of any specific talismanic associations with this style of keris. I do know that many people who were and are not a part of the Javanese keris world, but who do have a strong belief in the esoteric character of the keris have a strong belief in the protective value of this type of blade, both keris and tombak. So, yes, possibly there was some intent that a keris like this might have been intended as a talisman, but no reliable informant has ever told me this.

Athanase, as Jean has suggested, a light etch with a mild acid will give you an indication of the nature of the outer skin of the blade, however, it would be cautious to paint the blade with a slurry of bicarbonate of soda and let it stand for a few minutes after your initial rinse, and before drying and applying WD40.
The wrongko and mendak on this keris are typical of the period 1850 - 1940. Neither are what we would expect to see as original on a keris predating 1800.

Gustav · 13th March 2016, 10:48 AM

Thank you Alan.

Regarding Erlangga's Keris, there of course is Kyai Arjunawiwoho, whose attribution could have created such "offshots". This is perhaps the most famous engraved blade, yet has many characteristics, including the iconographic narrative, which differ completely from this quite homogenous group of three Keris depicted and mentioned in this thread.

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2016, 12:08 PM

Gustav, my mention of the 1974 Surabaya keris was intended to demonstrate the somewhat flexible nature of perceived reality that one continually encounters in Jawa, it had somewhere between nothing and very little to do with the keris under discussion, other than that both the Surabaya keris and Athanase's keris had the same form of ornamentation.

Edit

Actually Gustav, you have me a little bit confused here. I don't really understand what you have written, nor your references.

Could you please clarify?

thanks.

Gustav · 13th March 2016, 01:28 PM

I am speaking about the Keris Kyai Arjunawiwoho, which, as I understand was in the possession of Pangeran Hardjonagoro. It also was linked with Erlangga.

By the homogenous group of three Kerisses I mean the initial Keris of this thread, one depicted in van der Hoop's book and one from the link Athanase provided, which all have the same iconographic narrative and more or less share the proportions of Ricikan features at the base of blade.

Athanase · 13th March 2016, 02:22 PM

Thank you for all these details.

I read the description of the auction house. It is specified that keris is from the collection of Emile Andrée (1871 - 1933), a "famous" french Art Nouveau architect from the city of Nancy. I found on internet that has traveled widely between 1894 and 1900 in Sicily, Tunisia, Egypt, Persia and Sri Lanka (but I don't find indications about travel in Indonesia).

13th March 2016, 12:08 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gustav, my mention of the 1974 Surabaya keris was intended to demonstrate the somewhat flexible nature of perceived reality that one continually encounters in Jawa, it had somewhere between nothing and very little to do with the keris under discussion, other than that both the Surabaya keris and Athanase's keris had the same form of ornamentation. Edit Actually Gustav, you have me a little bit confused here. I don't really understand what you have written, nor your references. Could you please clarify? thanks. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 13th March 2016 at 12:40 PM. Reason: puzzlement

12th March 2016, 12:05 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Athanase, Welcome to the forum! I have no doubt that this blade is old but because of the shiny surface the carved motifs and potential pamor are not very visible. In order to improve the surface look and remove the rust spots, I would advise you to clean the blade by dipping it completely in undiluted vinegar (8°) or 10% citric acid (or a mix of the 2 products) for about 24 h with 2 intermediate brushings, which would not attack the iron/ steel itself. After treating, carefully rinse & dry the blade, and treat it immediately with WD40 for preserving it from future rusting. Regards

12th March 2016, 04:27 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks for your more in-depth analysis Alan. Precisely why i asked for those additional views. Can you comment any further on the nature of such keris? Iron Ancestors makes a vague reference on pg. 186 to a small Bali keris with wayang carvings that was used to make holy water for the Odalam festival. I have no way of verifying such a statement. Obvious as we move more into later era creation such keris are likely created more as art objects, but considering this one seems to be at least pre-WWII is it at all likely it was created for some specific ritual purpose?

12th March 2016, 08:54 PM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	On the internet I saw this keris which is similar : http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/21837

12th March 2016, 11:41 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gustav, there are several things that have caught my attention with the pesi, and measured against characteristics of blades that I know to be truly old, they just don't fit. The thickness of the pesi base compared to the thickness of the actual pesi itself is not uncommon, but in this keris the shoulder of that thicker section appears to have a radius, which indicates extreme attention to detail and something I cannot recall ever having seen previously. Additionally, the tip of the pesi appears to have a very slight swelling, not something that is common in very old blades. In short, this pesi does not strike me as having the appearance of something that I would expect to see on a really old keris. It is very obvious that the pesi has been freshly filed for some reason or other, maybe to fit the mendak as suggested by Athanase, and this fresh filing is not a part of my considerations, it could as easily appear in a keris made last week as in one made many years ago. I actually don't know of any specific "sign" that will indicate an older keris, or the comparative age of any keris. Something that came out of its native society 300 or 400 hundred years ago can look virtually brand new if stored carefully in a European collection. I have based my opinion on the comparison of this keris with the many other keris I have seen over the years, especially comparison with keris of a similar style. Bear this in mind: stylistically this keris is Tuban. Tuban was a trading port, it was not a kraton, and keris from the hinterland and from the north coast were taken to Tuban for sale and for export. This keris has been made to satisfy a market demand, not to conform with the dictates of a royally approved style. I also cannot forget the many keris of this type that I saw with dealers in Jawa during the 1970's, and the virtual disappearance of this style in the market-place at the present time. However, above all I must emphasise that my opinion could change if I handled this object:- "--- Based upon what I believe I can see in these photographs ---" David, I cannot answer your question, because I do not know of any specific talismanic associations with this style of keris. I do know that many people who were and are not a part of the Javanese keris world, but who do have a strong belief in the esoteric character of the keris have a strong belief in the protective value of this type of blade, both keris and tombak. So, yes, possibly there was some intent that a keris like this might have been intended as a talisman, but no reliable informant has ever told me this. Athanase, as Jean has suggested, a light etch with a mild acid will give you an indication of the nature of the outer skin of the blade, however, it would be cautious to paint the blade with a slurry of bicarbonate of soda and let it stand for a few minutes after your initial rinse, and before drying and applying WD40. The wrongko and mendak on this keris are typical of the period 1850 - 1940. Neither are what we would expect to see as original on a keris predating 1800.

13th March 2016, 10:48 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Thank you Alan. Regarding Erlangga's Keris, there of course is Kyai Arjunawiwoho, whose attribution could have created such "offshots". This is perhaps the most famous engraved blade, yet has many characteristics, including the iconographic narrative, which differ completely from this quite homogenous group of three Keris depicted and mentioned in this thread.

13th March 2016, 01:28 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I am speaking about the Keris Kyai Arjunawiwoho, which, as I understand was in the possession of Pangeran Hardjonagoro. It also was linked with Erlangga. By the homogenous group of three Kerisses I mean the initial Keris of this thread, one depicted in van der Hoop's book and one from the link Athanase provided, which all have the same iconographic narrative and more or less share the proportions of Ricikan features at the base of blade.

13th March 2016, 02:22 PM	#8
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	Thank you for all these details. I read the description of the auction house. It is specified that keris is from the collection of Emile Andrée (1871 - 1933), a "famous" french Art Nouveau architect from the city of Nancy. I found on internet that has traveled widely between 1894 and 1900 in Sicily, Tunisia, Egypt, Persia and Sri Lanka (but I don't find indications about travel in Indonesia).