Tipu Sword

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 01:55 PM

Hi Brian,

Hmm yes, it occurred to me that you did try to pull my leg – now, which leg was it, the wooden one or the other?
Maybe I will be flogged, but let the ones doing so prove me wrong, it is all there in clear pictures, besides for the interesting text Robert Elgood writes about the kris in the Glossary.
I have only, very briefly, been the owner of a kris with a golden hilt, but that is many years ago – maybe I should have kept it.
The knife in the Bikarner armoury with the Persian blade and Malayan hilt, could have been a gift from someone, a pity that Herman Goetz did not draw it or at least describe it more in detail.

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 02:13 PM

have i ever let you down, jens?
it took me years to find this book and it cost the price of a wooden leg but was worth it.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 02:25 PM

The book must have been expensive, as a wooden leg is rather pricy these days, especially if it has to be of hard wood – only glad it is the leg, and not the head.
That is a most peculiar sword you are showing, in a way a pity for both the hilt and the blade, but interesting all the same. Do you know if the hilt and the blade is of the same age?

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 02:48 PM

the blade i would guess to be 17thC, but my book is marginally better than the image i've shown, so can only speculate. the small stamps were used throughout 200+ years of sword manafacture and so wont offer a clue. the inscription seems genuine and not filled in like many of fiegels but again, speculation. even if the inscription is old, then who knows if it as old as the blade itself.
maybe the hilt will offer a clue, but this is not my area and couldnt even hazzard a guess. i will find out were the sword is, as there are two museums in bikaner and maybe track down a better image. however, it may be in the maharajas private collection (which i doubt) and then access is impossible.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 04:15 PM

It would be interesting to see a better picture, but which of these museums are you referring to?
Museums of Rajasthan : Ajmer Government Museum | Alwar Government Museum | Amer (Jaipur) Archaeological Museum | Virat Nagar Museum | Bharatpur Government Museum | Bikaner Fort Museum | Shri Sardul Museum and Anup Library | Ganga Golden Jubilee Museum

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 05:16 PM

a wonderful concoction of institutions

the bikaner collection is divided between the fort museum, and the jubilee museum (i think, form memory) and both are in bikaner. the maharaja has his own collection.
more on the sword -
the blade is actually a sossun pata, which makes it even more intriguing. the inscription bears the name 'sultan jalal-ud-din akbar' and is dated AH 1012 (1603). as the rajput line of bikaner were long under the dominionship of dehli, it is not known whether the sword was given by jahangir to raja sur singhji on the occasion of his investiture, or had already been presented to rai singhji by akbar, or was selected merely as a reminder to serve jahangir as faithfully as sur singhs father had served akbar (goetz).

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 09:38 PM

Ah I see, now you are giving a bit in, telling some more about the blad, what is next?
The museums mentiond are all supposed to be in the Bikane region.

Best
Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 10:02 PM

yes, jens, but the two i mentioned are in bikaner itself, not just in the surrounding area.
sorry about the blade information. unlike jim, i dont walk through the day with a library crammed in my head

i was pleasantly surprised by the blade shape, hinting it is not persian as i wrongly surmised.
you can get away with being wrong if you catch yourself out before others do!

11th January 2005, 02:13 PM	#2
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	wooden leg have i ever let you down, jens? it took me years to find this book and it cost the price of a wooden leg but was worth it. Attached Images

11th January 2005, 02:48 PM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	age the blade i would guess to be 17thC, but my book is marginally better than the image i've shown, so can only speculate. the small stamps were used throughout 200+ years of sword manafacture and so wont offer a clue. the inscription seems genuine and not filled in like many of fiegels but again, speculation. even if the inscription is old, then who knows if it as old as the blade itself. maybe the hilt will offer a clue, but this is not my area and couldnt even hazzard a guess. i will find out were the sword is, as there are two museums in bikaner and maybe track down a better image. however, it may be in the maharajas private collection (which i doubt) and then access is impossible.

11th January 2005, 05:16 PM	#6
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	museums and gifts a wonderful concoction of institutions the bikaner collection is divided between the fort museum, and the jubilee museum (i think, form memory) and both are in bikaner. the maharaja has his own collection. more on the sword - the blade is actually a sossun pata, which makes it even more intriguing. the inscription bears the name 'sultan jalal-ud-din akbar' and is dated AH 1012 (1603). as the rajput line of bikaner were long under the dominionship of dehli, it is not known whether the sword was given by jahangir to raja sur singhji on the occasion of his investiture, or had already been presented to rai singhji by akbar, or was selected merely as a reminder to serve jahangir as faithfully as sur singhs father had served akbar (goetz).

11th January 2005, 10:02 PM	#8
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	museums yes, jens, but the two i mentioned are in bikaner itself, not just in the surrounding area. sorry about the blade information. unlike jim, i dont walk through the day with a library crammed in my head i was pleasantly surprised by the blade shape, hinting it is not persian as i wrongly surmised. you can get away with being wrong if you catch yourself out before others do!

11th January 2005, 01:55 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Brian, Hmm yes, it occurred to me that you did try to pull my leg – now, which leg was it, the wooden one or the other? Maybe I will be flogged, but let the ones doing so prove me wrong, it is all there in clear pictures, besides for the interesting text Robert Elgood writes about the kris in the Glossary. I have only, very briefly, been the owner of a kris with a golden hilt, but that is many years ago – maybe I should have kept it. The knife in the Bikarner armoury with the Persian blade and Malayan hilt, could have been a gift from someone, a pity that Herman Goetz did not draw it or at least describe it more in detail. Jens

11th January 2005, 02:25 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The book must have been expensive, as a wooden leg is rather pricy these days, especially if it has to be of hard wood – only glad it is the leg, and not the head. That is a most peculiar sword you are showing, in a way a pity for both the hilt and the blade, but interesting all the same. Do you know if the hilt and the blade is of the same age? Jens

11th January 2005, 04:15 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It would be interesting to see a better picture, but which of these museums are you referring to? Museums of Rajasthan : Ajmer Government Museum \| Alwar Government Museum \| Amer (Jaipur) Archaeological Museum \| Virat Nagar Museum \| Bharatpur Government Museum \| Bikaner Fort Museum \| Shri Sardul Museum and Anup Library \| Ganga Golden Jubilee Museum Jens

11th January 2005, 09:38 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ah I see, now you are giving a bit in, telling some more about the blad, what is next? The museums mentiond are all supposed to be in the Bikane region. Best Jens