Dating of chambers for breechloading cannon

Philip · 1st March 2016, 07:53 AM

Hi, Fernando
Thanks for posting these pics. The swivel rampart gun is most interesting, when I saw the image, something told me "I may have seen that before" and lo, there is a photo of its Far Eastern equivalent in a reference book on Chinese arms. A rather fuzzy black-and-white image, not worth reproducing here, but it shows something very similar to the Vila Viçosa example except for the length (2.2 m) and caliber (2.6 cm). The substantial points of difference on the Chinese gun are the fact that it is mounted on a wheeled 4-footed support, and that it is equipped with an actual matchlock mechanism with a trigger. It is dated 1727, making it about a century younger than the Portuguese counterpart in your photo.

In a prior post you use the term berço (cradle) to describe the breechloaders under discussion. The Chinese name for this type of gun is "zimujiang" or child-and-mother gun, the chamber piece corresponding to the baby in a cradle.

Lastly, the "scroll" shape at the end of the buttstock is almost identical to that seen on a type of Japanese matchlock "horse pistol" called a bajou-zutsu.

fernando · 1st March 2016, 07:22 PM

Yes Philip, a peculiar buttstock indeed.
I would not reject the possibility of this esmerilhão having a different origin, as so often museum personal fails, if it weren't for the fact that the legend states that, there is an identical example in the palace armoury and another one in the Lisbon Military Museum. It does not mention that identical also comprehends the sock shape but, let us believe so.
Curious analogy of the Berço with the Chinese "zimujiang" I was already aware that such connotation is not (only) of Portuguese inspiration. Also the Castillians call it 'verso', but i think i heard the attribution is French. But no doubt the term increased its popularity with King Dom Manuel personal development of this typology by having them forged in one only piece and prepaired for severe endurance; thus the name Berço Manuelino.

Philip · 2nd March 2016, 01:49 AM

Fernando,
The similarity between the Portuguese and the Chinese examples of the breechloading guns can be explained by the fact that this type of gun with a chamber-piece retained by a "cradle" integral with the barrel is an introduction to the Far East by Europeans. Of course, the Portuguese were there first (although we must admit that the Dutch brought the same technology with them, later). Another name that the Chinese applied to the cradle breechloader was "folangji" or Frankish device. The Portuguese were the first Europeans to reach China in any numbers, and initially they were called Franks, after the Indian and Near Eastern habit of referring to Europeans as "firangi".

Portuguese breechloading cannon of the 16th cent. have a remarkable stylistic similarity to their Chinese and Korean counterparts of that period and later. The swiveling "lantaka" cannons of the Malay Archipelago no doubt have a similar origin, also noting that a few rare examples of those are breechloaders as well. You may have seen a few of those in private collections in Portugal as well.

1st March 2016, 07:53 AM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	esmerilhão Hi, Fernando Thanks for posting these pics. The swivel rampart gun is most interesting, when I saw the image, something told me "I may have seen that before" and lo, there is a photo of its Far Eastern equivalent in a reference book on Chinese arms. A rather fuzzy black-and-white image, not worth reproducing here, but it shows something very similar to the Vila Viçosa example except for the length (2.2 m) and caliber (2.6 cm). The substantial points of difference on the Chinese gun are the fact that it is mounted on a wheeled 4-footed support, and that it is equipped with an actual matchlock mechanism with a trigger. It is dated 1727, making it about a century younger than the Portuguese counterpart in your photo. In a prior post you use the term berço (cradle) to describe the breechloaders under discussion. The Chinese name for this type of gun is "zimujiang" or child-and-mother gun, the chamber piece corresponding to the baby in a cradle. Lastly, the "scroll" shape at the end of the buttstock is almost identical to that seen on a type of Japanese matchlock "horse pistol" called a bajou-zutsu.

2nd March 2016, 01:49 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Another gift of the Portuguese Fernando, The similarity between the Portuguese and the Chinese examples of the breechloading guns can be explained by the fact that this type of gun with a chamber-piece retained by a "cradle" integral with the barrel is an introduction to the Far East by Europeans. Of course, the Portuguese were there first (although we must admit that the Dutch brought the same technology with them, later). Another name that the Chinese applied to the cradle breechloader was "folangji" or Frankish device. The Portuguese were the first Europeans to reach China in any numbers, and initially they were called Franks, after the Indian and Near Eastern habit of referring to Europeans as "firangi". Portuguese breechloading cannon of the 16th cent. have a remarkable stylistic similarity to their Chinese and Korean counterparts of that period and later. The swiveling "lantaka" cannons of the Malay Archipelago no doubt have a similar origin, also noting that a few rare examples of those are breechloaders as well. You may have seen a few of those in private collections in Portugal as well.

1st March 2016, 07:22 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes Philip, a peculiar buttstock indeed. I would not reject the possibility of this esmerilhão having a different origin, as so often museum personal fails, if it weren't for the fact that the legend states that, there is an identical example in the palace armoury and another one in the Lisbon Military Museum. It does not mention that identical also comprehends the sock shape but, let us believe so. Curious analogy of the Berço with the Chinese "zimujiang" I was already aware that such connotation is not (only) of Portuguese inspiration. Also the Castillians call it 'verso', but i think i heard the attribution is French. But no doubt the term increased its popularity with King Dom Manuel personal development of this typology by having them forged in one only piece and prepaired for severe endurance; thus the name Berço Manuelino.