Strange yataghan! Russian?

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2016, 02:34 PM

Excellent call Dave!!!
The 'Pandours' were auxiliary units for the Austrians mid 18th c. and comprised on primarily Hungarian and Croatian troops . While in their 'irregular' capacity with various 'line' forces, they wore their own styles of uniforms and weapons, and the 'exotic' flamboyance became favored by the military of a number of European nations. This is primarily the instance which brought in many of these Balkan and Ottoman type weapons with distinct European flair, and in my opinion are some of the most fascinating and unusual examples.
While this cannot be classified as pandour with certainty, it certainly has profound potential in that accord.

Esterch, just wanted to note that your skills in locating and posting amazing comparative examples in these threads is almost phenomenal!! Thank you for adding this great and key dimension to these discussions

Mahratt, I thank you as well as you bring in examples and outstanding images of applicable photographs and art work.

You guys are totally amazing!!

estcrh · 12th February 2016, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Esterch, just wanted to note that your skills in locating and posting amazing comparative examples in these threads is almost phenomenal!! !

Thanks Jim, I did not see that Eftihis had already posted the two examples I posted, here is another one.

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2016, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Thanks Jim, I did not see that Eftihis had already posted the two examples I posted, here is another one.

I missed that too! Nice examples and Eftihis, thank you very much as well.
Its great to see these intriguing examples from Russia, and key to note how skilled they were in making various ethnographic weapon forms such as these.

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 04:14 AM

Another Hermitage museum yatagan.

ariel · 14th February 2016, 05:32 AM

Is this one also Russian?

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Is this one also Russian?

I am not sure, the translation from Russian does not help much, what do you thing, it just looks a bit different.

Gavin Nugent · 14th February 2016, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Is this one also Russian?

I would say at face value, and without referring to museum notes, the one above Ariel was made in the Balkan states as a diplomatic gift to Russian nobility...but detail on the scabbard seems to be a non Balkan hand?

I suspect the one in discussion originally is perhaps closer to Spain that Russia.

Gavin

ariel · 14th February 2016, 06:14 AM

There was another Russian yataghan for sale at the last year (?)Auctions Imperial.
Personally, I never liked them: they are as yataghan-ish as Chassepot bayonets.
The last one here, with gold and blueing on the blade is essentially Russian military shashka with a recurved blade. It is showy and gaudy. You just look at it and there is a feeling that .. not quite...something off. Similar to the regulation Austrian ones. There is no "smell of the Orient"
Italian Labruna ones from Naples were closer to the original, but also not the same.

It's like Mameluke regulation sabers and Persian Shamshirs, or Chinese interpretations of European sabers, or Balkan-made variants of Caucasian kindjals , or Beduin "shashkas".

Perhaps, there is something to be said about spirits of ethnically- authentic masters:-)

ariel · 14th February 2016, 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Is this one also Russian?

I would say at face value, and without referring to museum notes, the one above Ariel was made in the Balkan states as a diplomatic gift to Russian nobility...but detail on the scabbard seems to be a non Balkan hand?

I suspect the one in discussion originally is perhaps closer to Spain that Russia.

Gavin

-------------------------------------------

Are you referring to post #5?

There are snippets of legends, but the two readable ones refer to Abyssinian and Turkish origins. Perhaps, the desired legend was not included?

And the initial one in this topic does resemble the Labruna manufacture. Also... not quite:-)

14th February 2016, 04:14 AM	#4
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Another Hermitage museum yatagan. Attached Images

12th February 2016, 02:34 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Excellent call Dave!!! The 'Pandours' were auxiliary units for the Austrians mid 18th c. and comprised on primarily Hungarian and Croatian troops . While in their 'irregular' capacity with various 'line' forces, they wore their own styles of uniforms and weapons, and the 'exotic' flamboyance became favored by the military of a number of European nations. This is primarily the instance which brought in many of these Balkan and Ottoman type weapons with distinct European flair, and in my opinion are some of the most fascinating and unusual examples. While this cannot be classified as pandour with certainty, it certainly has profound potential in that accord. Esterch, just wanted to note that your skills in locating and posting amazing comparative examples in these threads is almost phenomenal!! Thank you for adding this great and key dimension to these discussions Mahratt, I thank you as well as you bring in examples and outstanding images of applicable photographs and art work. You guys are totally amazing!!

14th February 2016, 05:32 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Is this one also Russian?

14th February 2016, 06:14 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There was another Russian yataghan for sale at the last year (?)Auctions Imperial. Personally, I never liked them: they are as yataghan-ish as Chassepot bayonets. The last one here, with gold and blueing on the blade is essentially Russian military shashka with a recurved blade. It is showy and gaudy. You just look at it and there is a feeling that .. not quite...something off. Similar to the regulation Austrian ones. There is no "smell of the Orient" Italian Labruna ones from Naples were closer to the original, but also not the same. It's like Mameluke regulation sabers and Persian Shamshirs, or Chinese interpretations of European sabers, or Balkan-made variants of Caucasian kindjals , or Beduin "shashkas". Perhaps, there is something to be said about spirits of ethnically- authentic masters:-)

14th February 2016, 06:23 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Quote: Originally Posted by ariel Is this one also Russian? I would say at face value, and without referring to museum notes, the one above Ariel was made in the Balkan states as a diplomatic gift to Russian nobility...but detail on the scabbard seems to be a non Balkan hand? I suspect the one in discussion originally is perhaps closer to Spain that Russia. Gavin ------------------------------------------- Are you referring to post #5? There are snippets of legends, but the two readable ones refer to Abyssinian and Turkish origins. Perhaps, the desired legend was not included? And the initial one in this topic does resemble the Labruna manufacture. Also... not quite:-)