Ornate Caucasian Shashka ? with Motto - Any Info ?

Jeff D · 20th January 2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radu Transylvanicus

I must agree with Rivkin in this, IMHO, this sword is well earliear than 20th century in both blade and grip.
But your shashka is dated right and it also looks right for its time.

Hi Radu,

I have no problems with the dating of the blade to late 18th c. early 19th. The hilt maybe earlier but the work looks a little later to me. I posted my hilt to illustrate that the work did continue into the 20th c.
I have been waiting for the English version of Astvatsaturjan since I have no possibility of reading the Russian text (my father was fluent but never taught me a word), I guess it is time to give up that hope

. I would appreciate it if someone can show similar work with the early dates.

Thanks
Jeff

Rivkin · 20th January 2006, 03:01 AM

Jeff:

Your shashka is Dagestan (may be Lak ??), imho it is very different from what we have over here. Because of this I have a small problem understanding what "similar" - similar in terms of that it is shashka with niello and rumi-derivative ornament ? Or similar to yours, or similar to the one in question ?

Jeff D · 20th January 2006, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

Jeff:

Your shashka is Dagestan (may be Lak ??), imho it is very different from what we have over here. Because of this I have a small problem understanding what "similar" - similar in terms of that it is shashka with niello and rumi-derivative ornament ? Or similar to yours, or similar to the one in question ?

Hi Rivkin,

Sorry about the confusion it is my fault. I misunderstood the Circassian atribution in your earlier post. My confusion comes from the fact that I was sure I have seen similar "open patterns" coming from Dagestan in the late 19th early 20th century. Of course now that I am trying to find them I am unable. I will keep looking to see if they were misidentified, or if I misread it. I would love to see more of this Circassian work if you have pictures.

Thanks and sorry again.
Jeff

Tim Simmons · 20th January 2006, 12:29 PM

Thank you Jeff. I think your post illustrates my feelings well. No doubt the blade is old and does indeed appear like the best late 18th early 19th century steel. Looking at the sword whole as it presents itself today the handle is surely 20th century and there for deserves a little harder scrutiny. I do not mean it is rubbish, if were given to me I would be delighted. I just felt the praise was a little too fulsome.

Tim

ham · 30th January 2006, 05:29 AM

Forum directors and members,

I was somewhat discomfited to find that the person who began this thread was soliciting information regarding an item which, rather than pursuing an exchange of knowledge as a student or collector of antique arms, he simply intended to sell-- the sword is currently for sale on eBay, and the description regurgitates the information provided above. I take exception to this, it is dishonest-- clearly he thinks so too; hence his phrasing: "I am having a hard time matching this type of sword up for someone."
I hope that this is the proper place to propose the following:
That individuals seeking information on items they intend only to sell state plainly that this is their aim in their initial posting, so that forum members and staff may determine whether they wish to contribute. Alternatively, perhaps queries of this kind should be directed to the classified section.

Sincerely,

Ham

Andrew · 30th January 2006, 06:10 AM

This is unfortunate. We have rules specifically concerning this exact situation:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4

Quote:

If you are the seller of an item or have any financial or personal relationship with the seller of an item which, to the most paranoid among us, could constitute a conflict of interest, then any post you initiate about such item belongs in the swap forum.

Quote:

There is no enforceable external legal constraint against posting an object for discussion in a forum such as ours and later deciding to sell the item and posting a link to the discussion in the forums. However, if a forum member does this without having received the permission of the authors of the relevant posts in advance for such commercial use of their remarks, this constitutes grounds for cancellation of the offender's forum registration.

Andrew · 30th January 2006, 06:17 AM

I'm locking this thread to avoid further discussion about this now active auction.

Casperkor, feel free to contact me via email at awinston@aol.com if you're inclined to explain some things.

30th January 2006, 05:29 AM	#5
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	DECEPTION? Forum directors and members, I was somewhat discomfited to find that the person who began this thread was soliciting information regarding an item which, rather than pursuing an exchange of knowledge as a student or collector of antique arms, he simply intended to sell-- the sword is currently for sale on eBay, and the description regurgitates the information provided above. I take exception to this, it is dishonest-- clearly he thinks so too; hence his phrasing: "I am having a hard time matching this type of sword up for someone." I hope that this is the proper place to propose the following: That individuals seeking information on items they intend only to sell state plainly that this is their aim in their initial posting, so that forum members and staff may determine whether they wish to contribute. Alternatively, perhaps queries of this kind should be directed to the classified section. Sincerely, Ham Last edited by ham; 30th January 2006 at 06:16 AM.

20th January 2006, 03:01 AM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Jeff: Your shashka is Dagestan (may be Lak ??), imho it is very different from what we have over here. Because of this I have a small problem understanding what "similar" - similar in terms of that it is shashka with niello and rumi-derivative ornament ? Or similar to yours, or similar to the one in question ?

20th January 2006, 12:29 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Thank you Jeff. I think your post illustrates my feelings well. No doubt the blade is old and does indeed appear like the best late 18th early 19th century steel. Looking at the sword whole as it presents itself today the handle is surely 20th century and there for deserves a little harder scrutiny. I do not mean it is rubbish, if were given to me I would be delighted. I just felt the praise was a little too fulsome. Tim

30th January 2006, 06:17 AM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'm locking this thread to avoid further discussion about this now active auction. Casperkor, feel free to contact me via email at awinston@aol.com if you're inclined to explain some things.