When in India "died" wootz?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you, estcrh. This only confirms my words that wootz steel production was not such a great secret.

It is interesting, how could you have so many steel manufacturers making a product for so long and yet people were said to be scurrying everywere to find out how exactly it was made.....and then the method was seemingly lost?????

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

It is interesting, how could you have so many steel manufacturers making a product for so long and yet people were said to be scurrying everywere to find out how exactly it was made.....and then the method was seemingly lost?????

My friend, this is an error - assume that Anosov sought "secret of wootz", traveling to India or Persia. Anosov was - researcher. Anosov studied samples of wootz steel samples which were brought from India, Persia and Central Asia for him. And on the basis of the studied samples of wootz, he developed his own method of smelting wootz steel.

Moreover, note that Ariel wrote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... in 1841 captain Massalski published full description of the process he observed in "Persia" ...

It says that in 1841 continued to produce wootz and it was not kept secret.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

My friend, this is an error - assume that Anosov sought "secret of wootz", traveling to India or Persia. Anosov was - researcher. Anosov studied samples of wootz steel samples which were brought from India, Persia and Central Asia for him. And on the basis of the studied samples of wootz, he developed his own method of smelting wootz steel.

Moreover, note that Ariel wrote:



It says that in 1841 continued to produce wootz and it was not kept secret.

There are records of many people besides Anosov that were seeking methods of steel manufacture in Indian and elsewere, as for captain Massalski, what exactly did he see/report and were did he see it, was he talking about wootz steel or another type of steel.



Science and Civilisation in China: Vol. 5, Chemistry and chemical technology ; Pt. 11, Ferrous metallurgy, Volume 5; Volume 11, by Joseph Needham, 2008.

[mahratt]

The captain Masalsky writes about of Bulat (wootz) steel smelting. And the smelting of wootz steel exactly the Persians.

I do not know that someone wrote in 2008 Article Masalsky published in 1841:

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Science and Civilisation in China: Vol. 5, Chemistry and chemical technology ; Pt. 11, Ferrous metallurgy, Volume 5; Volume 11, by Joseph Needham, 2008.

Tell me, please, the page number, where there is a piece of text that you have shown.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Tell me, please, the page number, where there is a piece of text that you have shown.

Around p265, so how do we know exactly what captain Massalski wrote, is there a translation of his work?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Around p265, so how do we know exactly what captain Massalski wrote, is there a translation of his work?

Thank you, I found page 265 and the text you show. The author is not sure what were the borders of Persia in the middle of the 19th century, therefore, it assumes that we are talking about wootz steel smelting in Central Asia. In fact Masalsky not indicate in his article the exact location of their observations. But several times he speaks of "the Persians". I think the Russian officer and ethnographer hardly confuse Uzbek with Persian.

I do not know whether there translation into English of the article Masalsky ... I have his article in Russian. If you want, I can send it to you by e-mail.

[mahratt]

Colleagues, I have found one historical source of the mid-19th century (art Masalsky 1841), where we are talking about wootz. But it turns out that this historical source says that in the middle of the 19th century has been wootz smelted.
Surely no one knows the English historical sources 19th century on this topic ...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you, I found page 265 and the text you show. The author is not sure what were the borders of Persia in the middle of the 19th century, therefore, it assumes that we are talking about wootz steel smelting in Central Asia. In fact Masalsky not indicate in his article the exact location of their observations. But several times he speaks of "the Persians". I think the Russian officer and ethnographer hardly confuse Uzbek with Persian.

I do not know whether there translation into English of the article Masalsky ... I have his article in Russian. If you want, I can send it to you by e-mail.

P.M. sent. Is there any evidence that Masalsky was actually in Persia, I find evidence that he was in Bukhara which has a long Persian history. Another problem when discussing this subject, unless you specifically say "watered steel" you do not know exactly what someone is referring to when they say "crucible steel, wootz, bulat, damascus steel" etc, these terms can and do mean different things to different people and the terms have changed over time. We tend to think of "crucible steel" as being "watered steel" but an object can be made from crucible steel and yet not show any sign of watering.