Turkish Chamber in Dresden

Ian · 3rd February 2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... Are private collectors the only owners who oil their treasures?

Probably the main ones who do so regularly and with attention to detail. I'm sure there are some professional conservators with museums who do a great job, but their time must be spread out trying to care for an enormous number of individual pieces, meaning that any one piece probably does not get the full attention it deserves.

Ian

Tatyana Dianova · 4th February 2016, 07:22 AM

Ian is right. Alan has told me also that at the storing rooms in Dresden where Keris and other ethnographic weapons are kept (there are tens thousands of items!) only ONE restorer is working. And only this person dare to make something with blades - oiling (or waxing?) included! There are a lot of volunteers, mainly students, but they dare not to touch baldes beause they are not qualified to do it, and they can help only with paperwork...

Jens Nordlunde · 6th February 2016, 04:35 PM

Thank you very much Tatyana for showing these items :-).

The museum exhibitions are often very nice, but mostly the museums keep the visitors away from the reserves, saying that they dont have staff enough - which in most cases is the truth due to budget cuttings.

Many years ago I was in Wienna and saw the National museum. The exhibition was fantastic, newly made, and you could see the weapons from all sides. However, when I saw the reserves I was chocked, seing all the weapons laying there unattended - they did not have the staff to take care of them.

This also goes for libraries where old books, palm blade manuscripts and other valuable things have little chance to 'survive'.

If they in Dresden have one conservator, he should use half his time to train the students how to do the job, so in a relatively short time they would be able to help him - at least with the most common work, so he would have time to do the job he was trained for. Maybe even call for collectors, who knew what it was all about.

ariel · 6th February 2016, 05:05 PM

Several years ago in Vienna I saw a beautiful Algerian nimcha with a label " tulwar" ( or something like that).
Luckily, the director was there by a crazy chance and I approached him. He was horrified: he never had time to actually inspect the main exhibition. He took me to his office and pulled out old boxes with original documentation. Small cards, faded ink.... That was the extent. He also showed me pics of literally hundreds of Oriental arms and armor for sale from a major Italian collection. The museum had no funds to even think of acquiring one.....

Jens is right: training volunteers to perform simple manual tasks or computerize archives is the only feasible solution. History is being lost under our collective noses.
I hoped Dresden would be an exception, but fat chance....

iskender · 6th February 2016, 09:56 PM

gentlemen you must look at it and realise that we are the sole curators of ancient goods for the comming generations! the goverments and museums in the whole world are running out of money,also the interrest of the mainstream-people these days is in fastfood and computer-games .i have seen from india to france even in the usa collections where remarkable items are rotting without a chance of conservation! a further problem is the tigthening of laws on privat owned antiqities because with the new laws you shoud be able to prove where the item has come from and where it was the last 20 years! men in my age have tausends of objekts bougtht legally over many years ,now we stand with our collections in the rain an are more or less criminals! i wish to apologize for being such a pessinist! greetings iskender

estcrh · 7th February 2016, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iskender

gentlemen you must look at it and realise that we are the sole curators of ancient goods for the comming generations! the goverments and museums in the whole world are running out of money,also the interrest of the mainstream-people these days is in fastfood and computer-games .i have seen from india to france even in the usa collections where remarkable items are rotting without a chance of conservation!

a further problem is the tigthening of laws on privat owned antiqities because with the new laws you shoud be able to prove where the item has come from and where it was the last 20 years! men in my age have tausends of objekts bougtht legally over many years ,now we stand with our collections in the rain an are more or less criminals! i wish to apologize for being such a pessinist! greetings iskender

Very true, as for owing items with even a small amount of prohibited ivory etc, I am myself am conserned about purchasing items from outside my own country for fear of confiscation, and what happens when you want to sell them somedy? I have noticed more sellers simply labeling an item as "bone" or "horn" rather than take the risk of saying "ivory" or "rhino".

6th February 2016, 09:56 PM	#5
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	sad facts gentlemen you must look at it and realise that we are the sole curators of ancient goods for the comming generations! the goverments and museums in the whole world are running out of money,also the interrest of the mainstream-people these days is in fastfood and computer-games .i have seen from india to france even in the usa collections where remarkable items are rotting without a chance of conservation! a further problem is the tigthening of laws on privat owned antiqities because with the new laws you shoud be able to prove where the item has come from and where it was the last 20 years! men in my age have tausends of objekts bougtht legally over many years ,now we stand with our collections in the rain an are more or less criminals! i wish to apologize for being such a pessinist! greetings iskender

4th February 2016, 07:22 AM	#2
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	Ian is right. Alan has told me also that at the storing rooms in Dresden where Keris and other ethnographic weapons are kept (there are tens thousands of items!) only ONE restorer is working. And only this person dare to make something with blades - oiling (or waxing?) included! There are a lot of volunteers, mainly students, but they dare not to touch baldes beause they are not qualified to do it, and they can help only with paperwork...

6th February 2016, 04:35 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you very much Tatyana for showing these items :-). The museum exhibitions are often very nice, but mostly the museums keep the visitors away from the reserves, saying that they dont have staff enough - which in most cases is the truth due to budget cuttings. Many years ago I was in Wienna and saw the National museum. The exhibition was fantastic, newly made, and you could see the weapons from all sides. However, when I saw the reserves I was chocked, seing all the weapons laying there unattended - they did not have the staff to take care of them. This also goes for libraries where old books, palm blade manuscripts and other valuable things have little chance to 'survive'. If they in Dresden have one conservator, he should use half his time to train the students how to do the job, so in a relatively short time they would be able to help him - at least with the most common work, so he would have time to do the job he was trained for. Maybe even call for collectors, who knew what it was all about.

6th February 2016, 05:05 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Several years ago in Vienna I saw a beautiful Algerian nimcha with a label " tulwar" ( or something like that). Luckily, the director was there by a crazy chance and I approached him. He was horrified: he never had time to actually inspect the main exhibition. He took me to his office and pulled out old boxes with original documentation. Small cards, faded ink.... That was the extent. He also showed me pics of literally hundreds of Oriental arms and armor for sale from a major Italian collection. The museum had no funds to even think of acquiring one..... Jens is right: training volunteers to perform simple manual tasks or computerize archives is the only feasible solution. History is being lost under our collective noses. I hoped Dresden would be an exception, but fat chance....