A composite 17 th century sword for comment.

cornelistromp · 31st January 2016, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertGuy

I must admit that I agree. The cross piece also seems nicely detailed but is a casting rather than being chassed/engraved. If it were the patterning would continue around the arms. The lettering looks to be acid etched rather than properly engraved as well. How deep is the lettering? I'm thinking an oldish blade strangely dressed up to be something better.

as far as I know, scrolling foliage paterns engraved ensuite, actually never passes through the narrow edges of flat guards to the reverse side.
however in rare cases on the narrow up and down side sometimes is a border of points, hammered in or encrusted.

RobertGuy would you please post an example where the engraved foliage pattern continues around the flat arms of a hilt, that would be very interesting ?

re: inscription in the blade
this must be engraved in relief and not etched on the surface of the blade of course.
maybe Jean Luc can post high res pictures which could provide more clarity of all the components as proposed by Ulfberth

best,

Cerjak · 31st January 2016, 05:46 PM

here some extra pictures

ulfberth · 31st January 2016, 07:16 PM

Hi Jean Luc thank you for posting extra pictures,

from what i can see on the structure of the metal the blade seems 16th C.
The blade looks to be thoroughly cleaned at one point in time because the lettering is partly worn out but there is little or no pitting in the blade.
The cross guard could be late 16th or early 17th C , the engraving is good for the period. I cant say nothing about the pommel.

kind regards

Ulfberth

RobertGuy · 31st January 2016, 11:40 PM

I too will admit that the clearer pictures have certainly clarified things and presented a much better impression of the sword. The lettering is certainly much better presented with the depth of the characters clearly shown.

Cornelistromp, I admit defeat I cannot find a decent picture to illustrate my earlier statement about the cross guard. Plenty of cross guards on tulwars, small swords an even some rapiers where the decoration is in the round but nothing on a similar hilt.. so my bad

cornelistromp · 1st February 2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertGuy

Cornelistromp, I admit defeat I cannot find a decent picture to illustrate my earlier statement about the cross guard. Plenty of cross guards on tulwars, small swords an even some rapiers where the decoration is in the round but nothing on a similar hilt.. so my bad

not of great importance, but thank you for the positive response!

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2016, 04:23 PM

This thread and the entire discourse is outstanding!! I cannot thank all of you participating here enough for these observations and the great illustrations.
This is like a course in arms study, and for an old nomad like me in a Winnebago who seldom sees or handles actual weapons in person, it is amazing

I thank Jen Luc for always sharing the excitement of new items he acquires so we can learn from them (Jasper, as you agree none of us ever stops learning).

Ulfberth, thank you for your astute skills in observing details on the metal work and components in their character.......things I certainly miss each time never escape your eye!

Jasper, if I may, it seems you mentioned that the spelling of Solingen adapted to that form at some point in time, leaving the SALINGEN spelling behind. Can you please reiterate?

On the blocked letters on the blade of original post, I would have taken them for more modern as they seem so heavily stamped and don't seem to have the fine serifs and flourished features of the early examples shown in some of these illustrations. Only experience and keen eye as with you guys could discern that these are indeed early.
Would that be likely from shop variation or worn stamps etc?

cornelistromp · 1st February 2016, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Jasper, if I may, it seems you mentioned that the spelling of Solingen adapted to that form at some point in time, leaving the SALINGEN spelling behind. Can you please reiterate?

this is own interpretation!
nevertheless the silver hilted rapier from post nr16 with the MEFECIT SALINGEN blade is attributed by Claude Blair, the keeper of metalwork in the Victoria & Albert Museum for ten years before his retirement in 1982, to a Solingen workshop.
my date of 1630 , 10 years earlier for the rapier's is also own interpretation.

best,

31st January 2016, 05:46 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	extra pictures here some extra pictures Attached Images

31st January 2016, 07:16 PM	#3
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 435	Hi Jean Luc thank you for posting extra pictures, from what i can see on the structure of the metal the blade seems 16th C. The blade looks to be thoroughly cleaned at one point in time because the lettering is partly worn out but there is little or no pitting in the blade. The cross guard could be late 16th or early 17th C , the engraving is good for the period. I cant say nothing about the pommel. kind regards Ulfberth

31st January 2016, 11:40 PM	#4
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	I too will admit that the clearer pictures have certainly clarified things and presented a much better impression of the sword. The lettering is certainly much better presented with the depth of the characters clearly shown. Cornelistromp, I admit defeat I cannot find a decent picture to illustrate my earlier statement about the cross guard. Plenty of cross guards on tulwars, small swords an even some rapiers where the decoration is in the round but nothing on a similar hilt.. so my bad

1st February 2016, 04:23 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,601	This thread and the entire discourse is outstanding!! I cannot thank all of you participating here enough for these observations and the great illustrations. This is like a course in arms study, and for an old nomad like me in a Winnebago who seldom sees or handles actual weapons in person, it is amazing I thank Jen Luc for always sharing the excitement of new items he acquires so we can learn from them (Jasper, as you agree none of us ever stops learning). Ulfberth, thank you for your astute skills in observing details on the metal work and components in their character.......things I certainly miss each time never escape your eye! Jasper, if I may, it seems you mentioned that the spelling of Solingen adapted to that form at some point in time, leaving the SALINGEN spelling behind. Can you please reiterate? On the blocked letters on the blade of original post, I would have taken them for more modern as they seem so heavily stamped and don't seem to have the fine serifs and flourished features of the early examples shown in some of these illustrations. Only experience and keen eye as with you guys could discern that these are indeed early. Would that be likely from shop variation or worn stamps etc?