Sawfish sword

Mercenary · 11th January 2016, 08:39 PM

From Palace Museum of Forbidden City. Qing Dinasty:

Tim Simmons · 11th January 2016, 08:49 PM

Great contribution ! If you were to be slashed by a sawfish sword weapon you would be in a very poor state. I think it has been established that pre industrial communities used these natural resources as weapons. That is all I wanted to show in the beginning.

VANDOO · 18th January 2016, 06:51 PM

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF A NATIVE MADE SAWFISH SWORD AND ONE MADE INTO A SOUVENIR FROM COSTA RICA. NO DOUBT THESE SAWFISH BILLS HAVE BEEN OF INTEREST TO MAN FROM PREHISTORIC TIMES EITHER AS A WEAPON OR CURIOSITY OR TROPHY. UNFORTUNATELY THE SAWFISH IS EASILY FOULED IN NETS AND IS FOUND IN SHALLOW WATERS SO IS OFTEN CAUGHT AND KILLED BY ACCIDENT BY THOSE FISHING FOR OTHER KINDS OF FISH. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A COMMERCIAL FISHERY FOR THEM SO THEY MUST NOT BE TASTY. THEY ARE THE LAST THING A FISHERMAN WOULD WANT IN HIS NET, CAN YOU IMAGINE A 600 POUND SAWFISH TANGLED IN YOUR NET GETTING IT OUT AND THE DAMAGE DONE TO THE NET WOULD RUIN A DAYS FISHING. AND IT SURE WOULD NOT DO THE SAWFISH ANY GOOD. THOUGH I DON'T LIKE SEEING A PAINTED SAWFISH BILL SOUVENIR I SUPPOSE ITS BETTER THAN JUST THROWING SUCH COOL OBJECTS IN THE TRASH HEAP.

#1. & #2. SAWFISH SWORD FROM PAPUA NEW GUINEA NATIVE MADE.
31.75 IN LONG
#3. COSTA RICAN SOUVENIR CIRCA 1960 22 IN. LONG
#4. 12 FOOT LONG ,CAUGHT 1920'S FLORIDA I WOULD ESTIMATE THE BILL TO BE AROUND 30 IN. LONG
#5 & #6 ARE FROM HEDGES OLD BOOK GIANT FISH, I CAN'T VOUCH FOR THE INFORMATION GIVEN, BUT IF TRUE THEY TRULY ARE HUGE.
#7. A VERY LARGE SAWFISH

A BOY CAUGHT A 900 POUND SAWFISH AT GALVESTON TEXAS IN THE 1970'S THERE WERE PICTURES AND AN ARTICLE IN THE PAPER BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE LENGTH. I HAVE SEEN A LARGE SAWFISH ROSTRUM IN A MUSEUM SOMEWHERE THAT WOULD HAVE MADE A GOOD LADDER TO CLIMB INTO A BUNK BED.

ariel · 18th January 2016, 07:17 PM

Good examples, Vandoo.
Weapons outlive their purpose and with it their meaning.

Islanders used sawfish swords as true weapons, just like Native Americans used flint knives. They did it for as long as there were no replacements.
When (and if) iron became available, newly-made examples ceased to exist as historical weapons and became art objects, ceremonial/parade contraptions, tourist fodder etc.

I would find it impossible to believe that despite wide availability of iron implements, sawfish swords retained even a minimal role as weapons per se. The Chinese, German and Indian examples shown here are just arts and crafts. Nobody in his right mind would actually pit them against even the crudest steel sword.

As a matter of fact, even steel swords share the same fate: millions of them shed blood in the 17-18 centuries, but now, with tanks, missiles, planes and machine guns, swords are just parade toys.

And in another vein: would any of us collect modern China- or India-made swords made out of even the most beautiful damascus?

mahratt · 18th January 2016, 10:43 PM

Dear Ariel
Very soon all seriously interested in the matter will be able to draw conclusions on how to, when and who used rostrum sawfish in the Indo-Persia, as a weapon.
I will let you know in this topic name of the journal in which the English language will my article: Using the sawfish rostrums (Pristis pectinatus) as a weapon in the Indo-Iranian region inthe XVth – XIXth centuries.

Best Regards

VANDOO · 22nd January 2016, 10:22 PM

MAHRATT I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR ARTICLE KEEP US POSTED. HERE IS A PICTURE OF TWO VARIETIES OF SAWFISH FOR COMPARISON. THE SMALL TOOTHED MORE NARROW ONE BEING THE TYPE COMMON IN THE RED SEA AND INDIAN OCEAN. THE BROAD LARGE TOOTHED ONE IS WHAT IS FOUND IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND LIKELY THRU-OUT THE CARIBBEAN. I DON'T KNOW THE FULL RANGE OF THESE SPECIES. I INCLUDE TWO PICTURES OF A FOSSIL SAWFISH ROSTRUM AND SOME TEETH. THE LARGE SECTION IS 10 INCHES LONG THEY ARE FROM MOROCCO, CRETACEOUS PERIOD. ONCOPRISTUS NUMIDUS SAWFISH.

mahratt · 22nd January 2016, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

MAHRATT I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR ARTICLE KEEP US POSTED.

Vandoo, I will inform you as soon as the magazine will appear in print.

11th January 2016, 08:39 PM	#1
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 426	From Palace Museum of Forbidden City. Qing Dinasty: Attached Images

11th January 2016, 08:49 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Great contribution ! If you were to be slashed by a sawfish sword weapon you would be in a very poor state. I think it has been established that pre industrial communities used these natural resources as weapons. That is all I wanted to show in the beginning.

18th January 2016, 06:51 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF A NATIVE MADE SAWFISH SWORD AND ONE MADE INTO A SOUVENIR FROM COSTA RICA. NO DOUBT THESE SAWFISH BILLS HAVE BEEN OF INTEREST TO MAN FROM PREHISTORIC TIMES EITHER AS A WEAPON OR CURIOSITY OR TROPHY. UNFORTUNATELY THE SAWFISH IS EASILY FOULED IN NETS AND IS FOUND IN SHALLOW WATERS SO IS OFTEN CAUGHT AND KILLED BY ACCIDENT BY THOSE FISHING FOR OTHER KINDS OF FISH. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A COMMERCIAL FISHERY FOR THEM SO THEY MUST NOT BE TASTY. THEY ARE THE LAST THING A FISHERMAN WOULD WANT IN HIS NET, CAN YOU IMAGINE A 600 POUND SAWFISH TANGLED IN YOUR NET GETTING IT OUT AND THE DAMAGE DONE TO THE NET WOULD RUIN A DAYS FISHING. AND IT SURE WOULD NOT DO THE SAWFISH ANY GOOD. THOUGH I DON'T LIKE SEEING A PAINTED SAWFISH BILL SOUVENIR I SUPPOSE ITS BETTER THAN JUST THROWING SUCH COOL OBJECTS IN THE TRASH HEAP. #1. & #2. SAWFISH SWORD FROM PAPUA NEW GUINEA NATIVE MADE. 31.75 IN LONG #3. COSTA RICAN SOUVENIR CIRCA 1960 22 IN. LONG #4. 12 FOOT LONG ,CAUGHT 1920'S FLORIDA I WOULD ESTIMATE THE BILL TO BE AROUND 30 IN. LONG #5 & #6 ARE FROM HEDGES OLD BOOK GIANT FISH, I CAN'T VOUCH FOR THE INFORMATION GIVEN, BUT IF TRUE THEY TRULY ARE HUGE. #7. A VERY LARGE SAWFISH A BOY CAUGHT A 900 POUND SAWFISH AT GALVESTON TEXAS IN THE 1970'S THERE WERE PICTURES AND AN ARTICLE IN THE PAPER BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE LENGTH. I HAVE SEEN A LARGE SAWFISH ROSTRUM IN A MUSEUM SOMEWHERE THAT WOULD HAVE MADE A GOOD LADDER TO CLIMB INTO A BUNK BED. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 18th January 2016 at 07:56 PM.

18th January 2016, 07:17 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Good examples, Vandoo. Weapons outlive their purpose and with it their meaning. Islanders used sawfish swords as true weapons, just like Native Americans used flint knives. They did it for as long as there were no replacements. When (and if) iron became available, newly-made examples ceased to exist as historical weapons and became art objects, ceremonial/parade contraptions, tourist fodder etc. I would find it impossible to believe that despite wide availability of iron implements, sawfish swords retained even a minimal role as weapons per se. The Chinese, German and Indian examples shown here are just arts and crafts. Nobody in his right mind would actually pit them against even the crudest steel sword. As a matter of fact, even steel swords share the same fate: millions of them shed blood in the 17-18 centuries, but now, with tanks, missiles, planes and machine guns, swords are just parade toys. And in another vein: would any of us collect modern China- or India-made swords made out of even the most beautiful damascus?

18th January 2016, 10:43 PM	#5
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Dear Ariel Very soon all seriously interested in the matter will be able to draw conclusions on how to, when and who used rostrum sawfish in the Indo-Persia, as a weapon. I will let you know in this topic name of the journal in which the English language will my article: Using the sawfish rostrums (Pristis pectinatus) as a weapon in the Indo-Iranian region inthe XVth – XIXth centuries. Best Regards

22nd January 2016, 10:22 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MAHRATT I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR ARTICLE KEEP US POSTED. HERE IS A PICTURE OF TWO VARIETIES OF SAWFISH FOR COMPARISON. THE SMALL TOOTHED MORE NARROW ONE BEING THE TYPE COMMON IN THE RED SEA AND INDIAN OCEAN. THE BROAD LARGE TOOTHED ONE IS WHAT IS FOUND IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND LIKELY THRU-OUT THE CARIBBEAN. I DON'T KNOW THE FULL RANGE OF THESE SPECIES. I INCLUDE TWO PICTURES OF A FOSSIL SAWFISH ROSTRUM AND SOME TEETH. THE LARGE SECTION IS 10 INCHES LONG THEY ARE FROM MOROCCO, CRETACEOUS PERIOD. ONCOPRISTUS NUMIDUS SAWFISH. Attached Images