Pulwar sword with engraved blade

Helleri · 9th January 2016, 02:19 AM

what stands out to me is that shiny brass piece. Looks like a pin with nice washer (I thought most such blades were held in with resin). But even if it is only decoration. It looks really new compared to the rest of it.

francantolin · 9th January 2016, 07:59 AM

Hello Ariel, Hello Helleri,

Yes I saw and found strange that the engraved pictures were too regular and mecanical on a nice old blade ( I hope it's an old blade !!),
I wonder if they engraved it in India ,
Ariel, do you think it's a really recent work ? Can it be made in a factory ?

Thanks

ariel · 9th January 2016, 09:51 AM

As a matter of fact, quite a few pulwar handles were "pinned" and brass washers were often used. Similar feature is seen ( albeit less frequently) on tulwars as well , perhaps also of Afghani origin. Without close inspection I would hesitate calling this washer "new", although who knows...

A.alnakkas · 9th January 2016, 10:06 AM

Agree with Ariel, The brass pin and washer is a common feature but the engraving looks very new. Blade looks old and decent though!

ariel · 9th January 2016, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Agree with Ariel, ....... the engraving looks very new. Blade looks old and decent though!

Thanks for agreeing with me.

There are quite a lot of recently-made Afghani daggers on the market with similar engraving technique.
Why would people take a decent sword and spoil it?

mahratt · 9th January 2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

There are quite a lot of recently-made Afghani daggers on the market with similar engraving technique.

In the newly created Afghan blades other engraving technique.

Pukka Bundook · 9th January 2016, 03:51 PM

Is not the blade in the opening post etched, rather than engraved?

The pin with the little brass flowers was used quite widely in Northern India as well as Afghanistan. It does little to hold the blade in place, (being just a thin pin) the hilt still being held with resin in the usual manner.

Richard.

A.alnakkas · 9th January 2016, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks for agreeing with me.

There are quite a lot of recently-made Afghani daggers on the market with similar engraving technique.
Why would people take a decent sword and spoil it?

Availability. There is alot of old weapons coming out of Afghanistan. These items along with modern ones are plenty in Middle Eastern markets, especially Oman, KSA and UAE. Sometimes in Qatar too.

ariel · 9th January 2016, 05:37 PM

Pukka Bundook:

I think it is a machine engraving, but you might be right. Etching would be cheaper and more suitable for mass production of " enhanced" stuff.

Pity we cannot examine it personally: the mystery might have been solved right away:-)

mahratt · 9th January 2016, 10:09 AM

A good pulwar from Afghanistan. Brass part - normal. Just hilt cleaned. Therefore, the brass piece - glitters.

francantolin · 9th January 2016, 11:17 AM

Thanks to everybody,
My last post was not displayed on time ...

Franckie

estcrh · 9th January 2016, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

As a matter of fact, quite a few pulwar handles were "pinned" and brass washers were often used. Similar feature is seen ( albeit less frequently) on tulwars as well , perhaps also of Afghani origin. Without close inspection I would hesitate calling this washer "new", although who knows...

A brass element seems common enough. Some better images of the blade engraving/etching would be helpful.

francantolin · 9th January 2016, 11:15 PM

Hello,

Here some pictures of the blade, maybe it was etched ,
but why damage such a nice old blade !

for the engravings/etchings, some parts are deeply carved, some other really less
the last pictures come from the left side of the sword were a lot of rust has been strongly removed ... the drawings are little blurring ...

Dear Ibrahiim al Balooshi, thanks al lot for the precious and interesting informations about the dots !!!

ALEX · 10th January 2016, 07:18 AM

I agree the blade is etched.
For comparison, here is another tulwar with chiseled script. The script is similar to "aṣḥab al kahf "(seven sleepers) inscription common on Islamic metalworks, such as Safavid bowl pictured below.
To note, the script was added later in life of this tulwar as evidenced by the "lashes" mark visible underneath it, but not recently.

ariel · 10th January 2016, 01:52 PM

Yup, etched. Close-ups were useful. And I still think it was a recent job ( sorry Alex:-) : the decoration is crude, graceless and devoid of any compositional elegance characteristic of a job imbued with tradition and reverence, as seen on Alex's examples.
As to " why do it?", the answer is simple: decorated sword can be sold for more money.

mahratt · 10th January 2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

And I still think it was a recent job...

Ariel, if you is not difficult, show please an example of the a similar a recent job on the blade.

ALEX · 10th January 2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Yup, etched. Close-ups were useful. And I still think it was a recent job ( sorry Alex:-)...

Ariel, you're right. And I am sorry, I was referring to my tulwar with early chiseling, was not clear enough and appeared as I referred to the one with etched script. My tulwar has eyelashes mark cartouche, and the script is running over it, evidently added after the original mark. You're right it shows classical early flow and style that is missing in later attempts, especially late etchings. Although I saw one very late brass plate with superb miniature etching (will post later) so it is not uncommon.

9th January 2016, 11:15 PM	#13
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello, Here some pictures of the blade, maybe it was etched , but why damage such a nice old blade ! for the engravings/etchings, some parts are deeply carved, some other really less the last pictures come from the left side of the sword were a lot of rust has been strongly removed ... the drawings are little blurring ... Dear Ibrahiim al Balooshi, thanks al lot for the precious and interesting informations about the dots !!! Attached Images

10th January 2016, 07:18 AM	#14
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I agree the blade is etched. For comparison, here is another tulwar with chiseled script. The script is similar to "aṣḥab al kahf "(seven sleepers) inscription common on Islamic metalworks, such as Safavid bowl pictured below. To note, the script was added later in life of this tulwar as evidenced by the "lashes" mark visible underneath it, but not recently. Attached Images

9th January 2016, 02:19 AM	#1
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	what stands out to me is that shiny brass piece. Looks like a pin with nice washer (I thought most such blades were held in with resin). But even if it is only decoration. It looks really new compared to the rest of it.

9th January 2016, 07:59 AM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello Ariel, Hello Helleri, Yes I saw and found strange that the engraved pictures were too regular and mecanical on a nice old blade ( I hope it's an old blade !!), I wonder if they engraved it in India , Ariel, do you think it's a really recent work ? Can it be made in a factory ? Thanks

9th January 2016, 09:51 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As a matter of fact, quite a few pulwar handles were "pinned" and brass washers were often used. Similar feature is seen ( albeit less frequently) on tulwars as well , perhaps also of Afghani origin. Without close inspection I would hesitate calling this washer "new", although who knows...

9th January 2016, 10:06 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Agree with Ariel, The brass pin and washer is a common feature but the engraving looks very new. Blade looks old and decent though!

9th January 2016, 03:51 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Is not the blade in the opening post etched, rather than engraved? The pin with the little brass flowers was used quite widely in Northern India as well as Afghanistan. It does little to hold the blade in place, (being just a thin pin) the hilt still being held with resin in the usual manner. Richard.

9th January 2016, 05:37 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Pukka Bundook: I think it is a machine engraving, but you might be right. Etching would be cheaper and more suitable for mass production of " enhanced" stuff. Pity we cannot examine it personally: the mystery might have been solved right away:-)

9th January 2016, 10:09 AM	#10
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	A good pulwar from Afghanistan. Brass part - normal. Just hilt cleaned. Therefore, the brass piece - glitters.

9th January 2016, 11:17 AM	#11
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Thanks to everybody, My last post was not displayed on time ... Franckie

10th January 2016, 01:52 PM	#15
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yup, etched. Close-ups were useful. And I still think it was a recent job ( sorry Alex:-) : the decoration is crude, graceless and devoid of any compositional elegance characteristic of a job imbued with tradition and reverence, as seen on Alex's examples. As to " why do it?", the answer is simple: decorated sword can be sold for more money.