The value of the additional visual sources for the study of historical weapons.

Mercenary · 3rd January 2016, 01:41 PM

That is right, it was your article for sure in a serious journal:

Quote:

Thanks for all your input!
...I recently published a paper on the origin of islamic saber in a Ukrainian journal published by a crazy guy who opened his private collection to the public and managed to corral a bunch of the top-class academicians to the Editorial Board of a journal he funded by himself:-) ... To have a paper in the same issue with Gorelik and Khudyakov is not something that happens every day:-)

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lik#post177887

Could you to explain why you think that it was saber and was not a defect of coinage?

ariel · 4th January 2016, 12:13 AM

Mercenary:
As you are well aware, what was published in the Ukrainian journal was a very preliminary draft. Due to the sudden death of the Editor and Publisher, this draft was published by his heirs without my knowledge, unedited and unfinished.

I am in а process of reworking the materials and adding new information. When I am satisfied with the quality of the paper, I shall submit it to a peer-reviewed journal dealing with the history of weapons.

As soon as it is published, I shall be more than happy to provide you with a reference. If the Journal's copyright policy permits it, I shall be glad to upload the PDF here.

Mercenary · 4th January 2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

As you are well aware, what was published in the Ukrainian journal was a very preliminary draft. Due to the sudden death of the Editor and Publisher, this draft was published by his heirs without my knowledge, unedited and unfinished.

It was not so. I knew the man whom you call "crazy guy" - V.G.Shleifer very well and knew how the last issue of the journal was preparing. One of my article was supposed to be there too.

Quote:

I am in а process of reworking the materials and adding new information. When I am satisfied with the quality of the paper, I shall submit it to a peer-reviewed journal dealing with the history of weapons.

Be carefull. Do not send to Editorial Board the draft of article again.

Quote:

As soon as it is published, I shall be more than happy to provide you with a reference. If the Journal's copyright policy permits it, I shall be glad to upload the PDF here

I'm not good in other regions and times except India in 14-19th century, but what are the historical sources, the scientific basis and the logic I know a little.

Ian · 6th January 2016, 01:06 AM

Gents:

This is an interesting thread but I must admit that, while the premise that coins may be a useful source of information about when a type of weapon was used is intriguing, the examples shown here are unconvincing for the most part. Except for the image on the gold coin, I'm struggling to see much else that would be likely called a sword. And I sense that others are also having a problem identifying weapons in many of the images. There appears to be some distortion of the coins over time, which also makes interpretation difficult.

As far as frescos are concerned, there are always issues of when the drawings were made and how such artwork might relate to other items found nearby. So, the discovery of articles dating to 10-30 C.E. in the vicinity of the fresco that is shown does not mean that the fresco dates from the same period--it may have been added much later.

Nevertheless, interesting thoughts and conjecture. Ariel, I look forward to seeing your article when it is finished.

Ian.

ariel · 6th January 2016, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Nevertheless, interesting thoughts and conjecture. Ariel, I look forward to seeing your article when it is finished.

Ian.

Thanks Ian.
I am working on it. If only not for such minor distractions as an 8 to 7 regular job plus weekends :-)

Mercenary · 6th January 2016, 06:28 PM

I'm looking forward to new article too. I hope our discussion will help you in research.

fernando · 7th January 2016, 04:09 PM

This illustration appears in page 247 of Portugal History (directed J.H.Saraiva) where the author narrates the invasion of the Iberian Peninsula by the Berbere Tärik b. Ziyäd, in the year 711 (92 Hegira, Rajab-Sha'ban ), landing in Gibraltar (Djabal al-Tarik). Unfortunately the illustration is not dated, although one may assume that it is consistent with the related period.
Whether more or less stilysed, one can not deny that the swords carried by the Islamic knights are sligthly curved, the term sabre being pertinent in this case.

.

4th January 2016, 12:13 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mercenary: As you are well aware, what was published in the Ukrainian journal was a very preliminary draft. Due to the sudden death of the Editor and Publisher, this draft was published by his heirs without my knowledge, unedited and unfinished. I am in а process of reworking the materials and adding new information. When I am satisfied with the quality of the paper, I shall submit it to a peer-reviewed journal dealing with the history of weapons. As soon as it is published, I shall be more than happy to provide you with a reference. If the Journal's copyright policy permits it, I shall be glad to upload the PDF here. Last edited by ariel; 4th January 2016 at 03:01 AM.

7th January 2016, 04:09 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This illustration appears in page 247 of Portugal History (directed J.H.Saraiva) where the author narrates the invasion of the Iberian Peninsula by the Berbere Tärik b. Ziyäd, in the year 711 (92 Hegira, Rajab-Sha'ban ), landing in Gibraltar (Djabal al-Tarik). Unfortunately the illustration is not dated, although one may assume that it is consistent with the related period. Whether more or less stilysed, one can not deny that the swords carried by the Islamic knights are sligthly curved, the term sabre being pertinent in this case. . Attached Images

6th January 2016, 01:06 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Gents: This is an interesting thread but I must admit that, while the premise that coins may be a useful source of information about when a type of weapon was used is intriguing, the examples shown here are unconvincing for the most part. Except for the image on the gold coin, I'm struggling to see much else that would be likely called a sword. And I sense that others are also having a problem identifying weapons in many of the images. There appears to be some distortion of the coins over time, which also makes interpretation difficult. As far as frescos are concerned, there are always issues of when the drawings were made and how such artwork might relate to other items found nearby. So, the discovery of articles dating to 10-30 C.E. in the vicinity of the fresco that is shown does not mean that the fresco dates from the same period--it may have been added much later. Nevertheless, interesting thoughts and conjecture. Ariel, I look forward to seeing your article when it is finished. Ian.

6th January 2016, 06:28 PM	#6
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	I'm looking forward to new article too. I hope our discussion will help you in research.