The value of the additional visual sources for the study of historical weapons.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd January 2016, 04:03 PM

It is an interesting subject you have started, but from where are the coins and how old are they?
Coins are important objects to study, when it comes to which weapons were used where and when.
At first glance I dont think I see many weapons, although I am sure they are there. Please help a bit.

mahratt · 2nd January 2016, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

It is an interesting subject you have started, but from where are the coins and how old are they?
Coins are important objects to study, when it comes to which weapons were used where and when.
At first glance I dont think I see many weapons, although I am sure they are there. Please help a bit.

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=206666
ISLAMIC, Umayyad Caliphate. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. AH 65-86 / AD 685-705. Æ Fals (20mm, 2.67 g, 6h). Halab (Aleppo) mint. Struck circa 693-697. Caliph standing facing, hand on pommel of sword / Transformed cross on steps; wafin to left, halab to right. Walker 106ff; SICA 1, 609; Album 3529. Good VF, earthen black patina.

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=194745
ISLAMIC, Umayyad Caliphate. temp. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. AH 65-86 / AD 685-705. Æ Fals (20mm, 4.13 g, 3h). Ilya (Jerusalem) mint. Caliph standing facing, hand on sheathed sword / Large m; filastin to either side. SICA I -; cf. Goodwin 43 (for obv. die) and 45; Album 111. Near VF. Rare.

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=226700
ISLAMIC, Arab-Byzantine (Standing Caliph) coinage. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. AH 65-86 / AD 685-705. Æ Fals (17mm, 2.07 g, 9h). Halab (Aleppo) mint. Caliph standing facing, with left hand on sheathed sword; legend with Caliph’s name / Transformed cross; bi-halab-wāf flanking. SICA 1, 615; Album 3529. Good Fine, black desert patina.

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=106808
ISLAMIC, Umayyad Caliphate. temp. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. AH 65-86 / AD 685-705. Æ Fals (18mm, 2.37 g). Manbij mint. Struck circa 694-697. Caliph standing facing with hand on sword / Transformed cross potent on steps; mint name in right field. SICA 679. VF, dusty patina.

http://agoraauctions.com/listing/viewdetail/2832
Arab-Byzantine, Umayyad Caliphate. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. 65-86 / 685-705. Æ Fals. Ilya Filastin (Aelia Capitolina, Jerusalem). - See more at: http://agoraauctions.com/listing/vie....fFwHjZGe.dpuf

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd January 2016, 04:38 PM

That was very fast :-), Was you next post prepared already?
The coins you show are very early, and the only thing I can see are a few swords.
I do however agree with you that the coins are important too, so I also have an Indian coin catalogue for my research.

mahratt · 2nd January 2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

That was very fast :-), Was you next post prepared already?
The coins you show are very early, and the only thing I can see are a few swords.
I do however agree with you that the coins are important too, so I also have an Indian coin catalogue for my research.

Jens, of course I have had links to these coins. I wrote that this subject is being discussed in Russia.
I think that on all of the coins is shown the only one item. It is plain to see on the gold coins, which always been the best quality. But if someone has a good imagination he can see machete, saber, khanda-sword, mace or even fighting rake.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd January 2016, 06:24 PM

These very old coins are interesting, but they are not struck very well, so it can be hard to see what is on them.
The later coind are more precise, so it is easier to see which weapon is shown.

mahratt · 2nd January 2016, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

These very old coins are interesting, but they are not struck very well, so it can be hard to see what is on them.
The later coind are more precise, so it is easier to see which weapon is shown.

You're absolutely right! Of course, in the later coins weapon shown better!
So you agree that we can not say for sure what is depicted in these very old coins?

VANDOO · 2nd January 2016, 06:57 PM

THE GOLD COIN LOOKS LIKE A SWORD TO ME BUT SOME OF THE ONES ABOVE IT LOOKS LIKE A LARGE CLUB TO ME. OF COURSE I AM INTO CLUBS SO THAT COMES AS NO SURPRISE.

HERCULES MAIN WEAPON WAS A CLUB AND HE WORE A LIONS SKIN SO THEY WERE OFTEN REPRESENTED IN COUNTRIES WHERE HIS LEGEND WAS POPULAR. PERHAPS THERE ARE SOME GREEK COINS SHOWING HERCULES.

Mercenary · 2nd January 2016, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

You're absolutely right! Of course, in the later coins weapon shown better!
So you agree that we can not say for sure what is depicted in these very old coins?

First of all it is necessary to explan that on another forum we discussed about development of a sabre but to no avail ((
As we found out there are three versions of sabre development:
1. Turkic origin. In the period of the second Eastern Turkic (682-744 years) khaganate. The first samples had one and half edged blade and a straight handle without the cross-section.
2. On Iran territory together with turkic slave-warriors in 8-9th century.
3.Then a saber was adopted by Arabs.

But there was discussed an article too in which states that Arabs used a sabre in 7th century before Turkic people and as the only evidence was shown one of coins posted above:

"...this coin series dates to the very beginning of the rule of Al-Malik (685-705). On the obverse has a figure with no face, dressed in a burnous, long robe and with a sword at the left side. It is the shape of this sword that is of interest: the sword is curved, the blade is up-turned (kind of “shashka-like” suspension), the handle top being inclined towards the blade and a trace of yelman seen in its farthest third. These three features help to distinctly characterize this weapon as a saber".
"Finally, an Umayyad coin of the late 7 th century showing Caliph Al-Malik (or the very Muhammad) armed with a typical saber is presented here. Its dating by far precedes the emergence of sabers in the Iranian region of the Abbasid Caliphate, which excludes the possibility of primary coming of saber through Iran in the Islamic world. This coin is the earliest dated and documented image of saber known in the literature on weapon studies"

If on the coin we have a saber (but it is very strange to see saber in the scabbard with "up-turned suspension" and simultaneously "elman"), then the version of Arab origin of a saber in 7th century to have a right to exist.

2nd January 2016, 04:03 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It is an interesting subject you have started, but from where are the coins and how old are they? Coins are important objects to study, when it comes to which weapons were used where and when. At first glance I dont think I see many weapons, although I am sure they are there. Please help a bit.

2nd January 2016, 04:38 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	That was very fast :-), Was you next post prepared already? The coins you show are very early, and the only thing I can see are a few swords. I do however agree with you that the coins are important too, so I also have an Indian coin catalogue for my research.

2nd January 2016, 06:24 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	These very old coins are interesting, but they are not struck very well, so it can be hard to see what is on them. The later coind are more precise, so it is easier to see which weapon is shown.

2nd January 2016, 06:57 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE GOLD COIN LOOKS LIKE A SWORD TO ME BUT SOME OF THE ONES ABOVE IT LOOKS LIKE A LARGE CLUB TO ME. OF COURSE I AM INTO CLUBS SO THAT COMES AS NO SURPRISE. HERCULES MAIN WEAPON WAS A CLUB AND HE WORE A LIONS SKIN SO THEY WERE OFTEN REPRESENTED IN COUNTRIES WHERE HIS LEGEND WAS POPULAR. PERHAPS THERE ARE SOME GREEK COINS SHOWING HERCULES.