Mantras keris and empu

Rick · 16th December 2015, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Interesting, if all that remains is tattered remnants it could be argued that a "real" keris has not been produced for some time?

It would follow that the only "real" keris today are antique ones

So, I guess this begs the question:

Can a "Real" Keris be made today?
And.
What exactly is a "Real" Keris?

Pusaka · 16th December 2015, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

So, I guess this begs the question:

Can a "Real" Keris be made today?
And.
What exactly is a "Real" Keris?

A "real" keris must then be a Keris hidup and not real must be a Keris mati

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2015, 04:58 AM

A real keris is a keris that is accepted by the culture that owns the artifact.

Real keris are being produced right now, today.

The nature of the keris is not frozen in time, this is the reason that it has survived for over 1000 years.

It is not the place of anybody who is not a part of the owning culture to dictate to people within that culture what is appropriate for the culture.

Pusaka · 16th December 2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is not the place of anybody who is not a part of the owning culture to dictate to people within that culture what is appropriate for the culture.

Thats exactly what my guru used to say however who was Indonesian although I would suspect that there would not be full agreement even among Indonesians as to what a keris is.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2015, 07:48 PM

Of course.

Keris culture is based upon a number of belief systems.

All of the great belief systems, all of the great philosophies, are based upon belief systems.

Do all of the followers of those great religions and great philosophies hold exactly the same views?

Pusaka · 16th December 2015, 09:57 PM

I think however there are many of the older Indonesians who will not consider a keris maker an empu unless he can give life to a blade, now the method that is followed to do that might have changed. I would imagine a Muslim would use prayers whilst a Hindu would use mantras, fasting and offerings might be carried out by both. "finger tuning" well I guess there is something to that also.

David · 17th December 2015, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I think however there are many of the older Indonesians who will not consider a keris maker an empu unless he can give life to a blade, now the method that is followed to do that might have changed.

Pusaka, are you operating under the impression that only an empu can create a "real" keris. If so you have eliminated a great deal of antique keris from the "real keris" category.

16th December 2015, 04:58 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	A real keris is a keris that is accepted by the culture that owns the artifact. Real keris are being produced right now, today. The nature of the keris is not frozen in time, this is the reason that it has survived for over 1000 years. It is not the place of anybody who is not a part of the owning culture to dictate to people within that culture what is appropriate for the culture.

16th December 2015, 07:48 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Of course. Keris culture is based upon a number of belief systems. All of the great belief systems, all of the great philosophies, are based upon belief systems. Do all of the followers of those great religions and great philosophies hold exactly the same views?

16th December 2015, 09:57 PM	#6
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I think however there are many of the older Indonesians who will not consider a keris maker an empu unless he can give life to a blade, now the method that is followed to do that might have changed. I would imagine a Muslim would use prayers whilst a Hindu would use mantras, fasting and offerings might be carried out by both. "finger tuning" well I guess there is something to that also.