A Batangas Brass Bladed Dagger

Robert · 10th December 2015, 08:42 PM

Here is a photo of my small brass and copper Luzon dagger collection. I have one more copper dagger, but at this time it is packed away due to the Holiday rearrangement and decoration on the home. I just happened to know exactly where these were located.

Robert · 26th April 2016, 08:54 AM

This beautiful little copper bladed dagger was added to my collection by fellow forum member and good friend Ferguson AKA "Tito Gunong". Now that I have finally had a chance to do a little restoration work (replacing the missing toe piece) I thought I would post a few photos of it hopefully for the enjoyment of all. One of the strangest details of this piece is that the scabbard is made from one "solid" piece of wood. How this was done without cutting or splitting the wood into two sections to form the pocket that blade fits into is beyond me. I do not think that it could have been burnt in (a common practice for fitting hilts) as that would leave traces charring or darkening in the wood. Any suggestions on how this might have been accomplished or other comments on this piece would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 26th April 2016, 03:29 PM

Nice blade. I am aware that copper blades were talismanic (and perhaps brass/bronze as well?).

Robert · 26th April 2016, 04:26 PM

Quote:

I am aware that copper blades were talismanic (and perhaps brass/bronze as well?).

I have heard that copper, brass and bronze blades were all considered to be talismanic. One other thing I was also told is that it was believed that when used to stab someone the copper blades were supposed to have the power to leave a wound that would not heal and would eventually lead to the death of the victim. I have not heard if the blades made of brass/bronze are supposed to have the same power or not.

Sajen · 26th April 2016, 08:52 PM

Hello Robert,

another great addition to your ever growing collection of brass and copper bladed knives and daggers. And like usual a very good restauration, top work.

Best regards,
Detlef

Robert · 28th April 2016, 06:41 PM

Detlef, Thank you for your kind comments on the restoration work. I try to be as accurate as possible when having to make replacement parts (or when making repairs to original parts) using the same materials and trying to match the finish as closely as possible to that of the item they are to be placed on. I just wish that there was more information available on what the original intended use of these brass and copper bladed knives and daggers was. As Jose has suggested they had a talismanic purpose to help ward off evil as well as being an effective weapon against people with supernatural powers. It has also been suggested that they are ceremonial in nature, but not what capacity they served. There is also the belief that wounds inflicted by their use will not readily heal and will help lead to the subsequent death of the victim. I have also heard that brass and copper bladed knives were used to cut open bags of gunpowder because they will not create sparks, something definitely not wanted while working with or around explosives. Unfortunately because of the way they are built most of the brass/copper bladed daggers and knives that I have seen would not be suitable for this purpose. A more robust blade than most of these possess would be needed for such a task. I have just won a copper bladed knife that I believe was actually made for this purpose and will post photos of it here just as soon as it arrives. I would greatly appreciate any other information or suggestion that anyone has on the use of these unique items.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 28th April 2016, 07:20 PM

Hello Robert,

this is exactly what I meant.

Maybe others don't noticed the well worked and exact solvering of the brass part, exactly like I've seen it by old/antique examples, the same with the well chosen copper end plate, again like I've seen it before originally. At last the perfect patina match of the brass with the original fittings, very good.

Regarding brass and copper bladed daggers/knives I also only know the possible reasons you have numerated already. But what I have seen until now is that all this daggers and knives would do the same job as a steel bladed counterpart IMVHO. So maybe you can find them just because iron wasn't at hand.

But your incoming example could be indeed a powderman's knife. Courious to see your pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

10th December 2015, 08:42 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Here is a photo of my small brass and copper Luzon dagger collection. I have one more copper dagger, but at this time it is packed away due to the Holiday rearrangement and decoration on the home. I just happened to know exactly where these were located. Attached Images

26th April 2016, 08:54 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	This beautiful little copper bladed dagger was added to my collection by fellow forum member and good friend Ferguson AKA "Tito Gunong". Now that I have finally had a chance to do a little restoration work (replacing the missing toe piece) I thought I would post a few photos of it hopefully for the enjoyment of all. One of the strangest details of this piece is that the scabbard is made from one "solid" piece of wood. How this was done without cutting or splitting the wood into two sections to form the pocket that blade fits into is beyond me. I do not think that it could have been burnt in (a common practice for fitting hilts) as that would leave traces charring or darkening in the wood. Any suggestions on how this might have been accomplished or other comments on this piece would be greatly appreciated. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 1st May 2016 at 10:13 PM.

26th April 2016, 03:29 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Nice blade. I am aware that copper blades were talismanic (and perhaps brass/bronze as well?).

26th April 2016, 08:52 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Robert, another great addition to your ever growing collection of brass and copper bladed knives and daggers. And like usual a very good restauration, top work. Best regards, Detlef

28th April 2016, 06:41 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Detlef, Thank you for your kind comments on the restoration work. I try to be as accurate as possible when having to make replacement parts (or when making repairs to original parts) using the same materials and trying to match the finish as closely as possible to that of the item they are to be placed on. I just wish that there was more information available on what the original intended use of these brass and copper bladed knives and daggers was. As Jose has suggested they had a talismanic purpose to help ward off evil as well as being an effective weapon against people with supernatural powers. It has also been suggested that they are ceremonial in nature, but not what capacity they served. There is also the belief that wounds inflicted by their use will not readily heal and will help lead to the subsequent death of the victim. I have also heard that brass and copper bladed knives were used to cut open bags of gunpowder because they will not create sparks, something definitely not wanted while working with or around explosives. Unfortunately because of the way they are built most of the brass/copper bladed daggers and knives that I have seen would not be suitable for this purpose. A more robust blade than most of these possess would be needed for such a task. I have just won a copper bladed knife that I believe was actually made for this purpose and will post photos of it here just as soon as it arrives. I would greatly appreciate any other information or suggestion that anyone has on the use of these unique items. Best, Robert

28th April 2016, 07:20 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Robert, this is exactly what I meant. Maybe others don't noticed the well worked and exact solvering of the brass part, exactly like I've seen it by old/antique examples, the same with the well chosen copper end plate, again like I've seen it before originally. At last the perfect patina match of the brass with the original fittings, very good. Regarding brass and copper bladed daggers/knives I also only know the possible reasons you have numerated already. But what I have seen until now is that all this daggers and knives would do the same job as a steel bladed counterpart IMVHO. So maybe you can find them just because iron wasn't at hand. But your incoming example could be indeed a powderman's knife. Courious to see your pictures. Regards, Detlef