Long Keris

GIO · 15th November 2015, 03:03 PM

A nice Sumatran panjang blade, not that old but with some age. The tapak kuda hilt very likely horn, which is normally found with this kind of kerises. The scabbard seems of recent manufacture but unfortunately the grain of the wood in the lower part of the gandar is not up to the overall quality of the rest of the scabbard.
The absence of pamor is normal for such blades. I personally believe that the pamor is more frequently found on recent made blades, probably to increase the appeal.
As to the orientation of the hilt, there is no strict rule. It depens how comfortably it rests in the hand when holding the kris in the proper way.
Congratulations for the purchase.

GIO · 15th November 2015, 03:06 PM

One more thing: a nice selut would greatly enhance the aspect and value of this keris.

kai · 15th November 2015, 03:46 PM

Thanks, Giovanni, for beating me at it!

Quote:

A nice Sumatran panjang blade, not that old but with some age.

Could also have been nicely preserved in an old European collection...

Quote:

The scabbard seems of recent manufacture but unfortunately the grain of the wood in the lower part of the gandar is not up to the overall quality of the rest of the scabbard.

That's an old repair according to the seller.

Most of these scabbards have a rounded tip. However, there are also examples with more or less blunt-ended chased silver fittings.

This and a proper selut would make the ensemble much nicer, agreed.

Regards,
Kai

David · 15th November 2015, 07:20 PM

My two cents....
The blade, especially at the greneng, does appear well preserved, but this does appear to be an antique example, so late 19th to early 20th century would not be unreasonable.
I'd say the hilt is probably horn. I doubt it is painted wood as the exposed areas at the break would not appear so dark as they do. I have seen horn look that way in broken areas, but better photos might confirm.
I believe that this sheath should have a "toe" piece at the end of the stem. These were often either horn to ivory.
I do agree that a nice "selut" would bring this piece together nicely. Such things are available if you look. Ask a trusted keris dealer if they can find you an appropriate piece.
While no pamor isn't necessarily a good gage of age, examples with complex pamors are almost always contemporary ones. Some exceptions probably exist.

GIO · 16th November 2015, 12:45 AM

Thanks Kai and David for having better developed my opinions.

RobertGuy · 16th November 2015, 10:52 AM

Thank you all very much for your help. My usual area of collecting is European military swords so getting my head around the terms and terminology of these blades is a steep learning curve. In terms of adding a selut would this keris normally have had one? Is this the same thing as a mendak? Do these require an expert to fit them? Presumably the blade needs to be removed and then refitted. Is this easy? The sabbard repair I will probably leave as is. I would rather have a piece that shows its history that over restore it and take away its charater.
Thanks again.

asomotif · 24th March 2016, 10:45 PM

Hello Robert,

Did you find a selut already ?

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 25th March 2016, 12:06 AM

This comment relates only to pamor

Giovanni, you have expressed this opinion:-

"I personally believe that the pamor is more frequently found on recent made blades,probably to increase the appeal"

One of the attributes of the keris is that it is a work of art. This applies most especially to the Javanese keris. Many people in the Javanese art community hold the opinion that the keris is the highest expression of Javanese plastic art.

So, in respect of keris in the current era, the opinion you have expressed is a valid one, very much so when we consider the extremely complex examples of pattern welding that can be found in many current era keris. The very finest pamor motifs that have ever been produced are being produced right now. Going several hundred years into the past, not even a ruler would have had the opportunity to own a keris with a complex pamor that equalled what we can obtain today.

However, pamor itself has existed in the keris since at least the Late Eastern Javanese Period, say from at least the time of Majapahit.
It very probably developed from the necessity to extend imported high quality ferric material with locally produced lower quality ferric material, by welding the two different materials together in the forge.

Following the rise of Islam in Jawa there was an influx of people from the Middle East, and especially from India, and amongst these people there were numbers of metal workers, who brought their forge skills with them. During this period of Jawa's development we saw the development of complex pamor motifs, that were accompanied by their own talismanic values.

In the Ying Yai Sheng Lan (1416) we find this:-

"--- The men have a pu-lak stuck in their girdle, everybody carrying such a weapon, from the child of three years up to the oldest man; these daggers have very thin stripes and whitish flowers and are made of the very best steel, the handle is of
gold, rhinoceros horn or ivory, cut into the shape of human or devils faces and finished very carefully.---"

Scholars have interpreted this as evidence of the existence of pamor, and of keris, from at least the early 15th. century.

So --- pamor in keris has been around for quite a while.

RobertGuy · 25th March 2016, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hello Robert,

Did you find a selut already ?

Best regards,
Willem

Willem
No, not yet and I'm a little unsure how to fit one.

15th November 2015, 03:03 PM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	A nice Sumatran panjang blade, not that old but with some age. The tapak kuda hilt very likely horn, which is normally found with this kind of kerises. The scabbard seems of recent manufacture but unfortunately the grain of the wood in the lower part of the gandar is not up to the overall quality of the rest of the scabbard. The absence of pamor is normal for such blades. I personally believe that the pamor is more frequently found on recent made blades, probably to increase the appeal. As to the orientation of the hilt, there is no strict rule. It depens how comfortably it rests in the hand when holding the kris in the proper way. Congratulations for the purchase.

15th November 2015, 03:06 PM	#2
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	One more thing: a nice selut would greatly enhance the aspect and value of this keris.

15th November 2015, 07:20 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	My two cents.... The blade, especially at the greneng, does appear well preserved, but this does appear to be an antique example, so late 19th to early 20th century would not be unreasonable. I'd say the hilt is probably horn. I doubt it is painted wood as the exposed areas at the break would not appear so dark as they do. I have seen horn look that way in broken areas, but better photos might confirm. I believe that this sheath should have a "toe" piece at the end of the stem. These were often either horn to ivory. I do agree that a nice "selut" would bring this piece together nicely. Such things are available if you look. Ask a trusted keris dealer if they can find you an appropriate piece. While no pamor isn't necessarily a good gage of age, examples with complex pamors are almost always contemporary ones. Some exceptions probably exist.

16th November 2015, 12:45 AM	#5
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Thanks Kai and David for having better developed my opinions.

16th November 2015, 10:52 AM	#6
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Thank you all very much for your help. My usual area of collecting is European military swords so getting my head around the terms and terminology of these blades is a steep learning curve. In terms of adding a selut would this keris normally have had one? Is this the same thing as a mendak? Do these require an expert to fit them? Presumably the blade needs to be removed and then refitted. Is this easy? The sabbard repair I will probably leave as is. I would rather have a piece that shows its history that over restore it and take away its charater. Thanks again.

24th March 2016, 10:45 PM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Hello Robert, Did you find a selut already ? Best regards, Willem

25th March 2016, 12:06 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	This comment relates only to pamor Giovanni, you have expressed this opinion:- "I personally believe that the pamor is more frequently found on recent made blades,probably to increase the appeal" One of the attributes of the keris is that it is a work of art. This applies most especially to the Javanese keris. Many people in the Javanese art community hold the opinion that the keris is the highest expression of Javanese plastic art. So, in respect of keris in the current era, the opinion you have expressed is a valid one, very much so when we consider the extremely complex examples of pattern welding that can be found in many current era keris. The very finest pamor motifs that have ever been produced are being produced right now. Going several hundred years into the past, not even a ruler would have had the opportunity to own a keris with a complex pamor that equalled what we can obtain today. However, pamor itself has existed in the keris since at least the Late Eastern Javanese Period, say from at least the time of Majapahit. It very probably developed from the necessity to extend imported high quality ferric material with locally produced lower quality ferric material, by welding the two different materials together in the forge. Following the rise of Islam in Jawa there was an influx of people from the Middle East, and especially from India, and amongst these people there were numbers of metal workers, who brought their forge skills with them. During this period of Jawa's development we saw the development of complex pamor motifs, that were accompanied by their own talismanic values. In the Ying Yai Sheng Lan (1416) we find this:- "--- The men have a pu-lak stuck in their girdle, everybody carrying such a weapon, from the child of three years up to the oldest man; these daggers have very thin stripes and whitish flowers and are made of the very best steel, the handle is of gold, rhinoceros horn or ivory, cut into the shape of human or devils faces and finished very carefully.---" Scholars have interpreted this as evidence of the existence of pamor, and of keris, from at least the early 15th. century. So --- pamor in keris has been around for quite a while.