Saudi Government Issued Saif

A.alnakkas · 5th November 2015, 09:04 PM

Hey all,

I thought of sharing this saif as it might interest some. This is a Saudi government issued saif, released by them about 30 years ago along with its official papers. These are carried by the royal guard and the earlier ones come with well made blades.

This particular one has an exceptional blade that I believe to be an antique though the ones made 30+ years ago are very good and some were made locally, but not as exceptionally made as this one. In a discussion with my friend Sager I am more supporting the view that its an old English blade.

These are still being made and issued by the government, with some being released eventually. Though the more recent ones come with stainless steel blades.

The maker of this particular one is Ahmed Bader, a maker in Makkah. Although other ones can be made by different makers through out the country.

Similar ones can be found too, almost identical, but the government ones come with government seals and the more recent ones have serial numbers.

Richard G · 9th November 2015, 04:54 PM

Hello Lotfy,
From what I can see the blade could indeed be British manufacture, any time from the mid 19th century on. Blades of this type were also widely used in India, altho' still frequently British made.
Regards
Richard

A.alnakkas · 9th November 2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

Hello Lotfy,
From what I can see the blade could indeed be British manufacture, any time from the mid 19th century on. Blades of this type were also widely used in India, altho' still frequently British made.
Regards
Richard

Hey Richard, thought it may came off a 1821 cavalry sabre. Its a good blade compared to the stuff made more recently in KSA or their Thailand imported blades thats for sure.

Richard G · 9th November 2015, 06:04 PM

Lotfy,
Yes, this is the type of blade an 1821 pattern sabre would have. However in 1853 a new pattern for other ranks was introduced without a ricasso, and that, I think, was the end of the ricasso. The 1821 type blade survived for officers, but these would normally be engraved blades and have a "proof" mark on one side of the ricasso. The ricasso on most surviving 1821 other ranks blades I have seen seem to me to be shorter than on your one, and the blade a little wider and more curved. Your type of blade was also in use for infantry officers etc. until the very late 19th century but the same comment re decoration applies. It was also used for non commissioned officers in plain form, and for other government and para-military organisations. I suspect it would be a common type supplied for export.
One place the plain 1821 type cavalry blade remained popular was India.
Altho' this type of blade was popular in 19th Century Britain, it was also, of course, manufactured in Germany.
So, a blade based on the British 1821 cavalry pattern, that could well be 19th Century British.
There was a scandal in the mid 19th Century about sub-standard blades but I believe these were all weeded out, so yes, it would be of a quality more than adequate for its purpose.
Regards
Richard

A.alnakkas · 11th November 2015, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

Lotfy,
Yes, this is the type of blade an 1821 pattern sabre would have. However in 1853 a new pattern for other ranks was introduced without a ricasso, and that, I think, was the end of the ricasso. The 1821 type blade survived for officers, but these would normally be engraved blades and have a "proof" mark on one side of the ricasso. The ricasso on most surviving 1821 other ranks blades I have seen seem to me to be shorter than on your one, and the blade a little wider and more curved. Your type of blade was also in use for infantry officers etc. until the very late 19th century but the same comment re decoration applies. It was also used for non commissioned officers in plain form, and for other government and para-military organisations. I suspect it would be a common type supplied for export.
One place the plain 1821 type cavalry blade remained popular was India.
Altho' this type of blade was popular in 19th Century Britain, it was also, of course, manufactured in Germany.
So, a blade based on the British 1821 cavalry pattern, that could well be 19th Century British.
There was a scandal in the mid 19th Century about sub-standard blades but I believe these were all weeded out, so yes, it would be of a quality more than adequate for its purpose.
Regards
Richard

Hey Richard,

My knowledge in European military swords is subpar at best. Though I have seen multiple saifs in photographs and carried by Saudi royals with this blade design but with varying lengths. Though the shape is very similar. There is also another design used in that period, a foreign blade shaped like a clauberg but completely straight without a shallow curve. I'll try to acquire photos of it.

The later military issue have blades similar to the one shown in this post but more slender, with a different distal taper and always carry serial numbers on the blade and the scabbard. The one I am showing likely have an antique blade, the dress is made in Taif and copies the government military design although usually with lesser quality.

There was a preference for shallow curved swords or straight single edged blades :-)

estcrh · 11th November 2015, 04:28 AM

Interesting swords, do you know what material was used for the grip?

A.alnakkas · 11th November 2015, 07:58 AM

Hey Eric,

Those come with bone or white plastic handles. Some finer ones can be with ivory hilts and dark horns or even dark coloured plastic and wood.

5th November 2015, 09:04 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Saudi Government Issued Saif Hey all, I thought of sharing this saif as it might interest some. This is a Saudi government issued saif, released by them about 30 years ago along with its official papers. These are carried by the royal guard and the earlier ones come with well made blades. This particular one has an exceptional blade that I believe to be an antique though the ones made 30+ years ago are very good and some were made locally, but not as exceptionally made as this one. In a discussion with my friend Sager I am more supporting the view that its an old English blade. These are still being made and issued by the government, with some being released eventually. Though the more recent ones come with stainless steel blades. The maker of this particular one is Ahmed Bader, a maker in Makkah. Although other ones can be made by different makers through out the country. Similar ones can be found too, almost identical, but the government ones come with government seals and the more recent ones have serial numbers. Attached Images

9th November 2015, 04:54 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 412	Hello Lotfy, From what I can see the blade could indeed be British manufacture, any time from the mid 19th century on. Blades of this type were also widely used in India, altho' still frequently British made. Regards Richard

9th November 2015, 06:04 PM	#4
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 412	Lotfy, Yes, this is the type of blade an 1821 pattern sabre would have. However in 1853 a new pattern for other ranks was introduced without a ricasso, and that, I think, was the end of the ricasso. The 1821 type blade survived for officers, but these would normally be engraved blades and have a "proof" mark on one side of the ricasso. The ricasso on most surviving 1821 other ranks blades I have seen seem to me to be shorter than on your one, and the blade a little wider and more curved. Your type of blade was also in use for infantry officers etc. until the very late 19th century but the same comment re decoration applies. It was also used for non commissioned officers in plain form, and for other government and para-military organisations. I suspect it would be a common type supplied for export. One place the plain 1821 type cavalry blade remained popular was India. Altho' this type of blade was popular in 19th Century Britain, it was also, of course, manufactured in Germany. So, a blade based on the British 1821 cavalry pattern, that could well be 19th Century British. There was a scandal in the mid 19th Century about sub-standard blades but I believe these were all weeded out, so yes, it would be of a quality more than adequate for its purpose. Regards Richard

11th November 2015, 04:28 AM	#6
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Interesting swords, do you know what material was used for the grip?

11th November 2015, 07:58 AM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Eric, Those come with bone or white plastic handles. Some finer ones can be with ivory hilts and dark horns or even dark coloured plastic and wood.