Indian bagh nakh (tiger claws)

estcrh · 9th November 2015, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iliad

Images of my two Tiger Claw Daggers.
Best regards to all.
Brian

Brian really nice examples, the one with the folding side blades looks a lot like the one I posted.

Emanuel · 10th November 2015, 01:55 AM

The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon.

Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon.

I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar.

estcrh · 10th November 2015, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon.

Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon.

I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar.

Emanuel, Indian parrying weapons have one thing in common, side bars for parrying, the weapon you are questioning has no side bars so how can you parry a weapon with it. To me it appears to be an evolved type of bagh nakh, it has five blades instead of claws and it is grasped by bars instead of rings and and it shields the holders hand but its basic purpose seems to be the same.

Emanuel · 10th November 2015, 12:16 PM

I disagree with you Eric but I'll leave it at that.
It remains that these are fascinating weapons

Pukka Bundook · 10th November 2015, 02:44 PM

Gentlemen,

I know little of these weapons, but as a bagh nakh is a concealed weapon, I do not think we can call the weapon in question by this name, and as it would appear to be a secondary weapon, with say a longer blade in the other hand, I would say its use was for parrying.

I do hope other examples of this type can be found, as I have never seen one in Egerton or Elgood or anywhere else. There surely had to be a name for this, as it does appear to have some age to it.

Best regards Richard.

Jens Nordlunde · 10th November 2015, 04:27 PM

Emanuel and Richard are right, the first one shown has nothing to do with a bagh nakh, it is for parrying maybe to spike the opponents shield.
The bagh nakh is 'tiger claws' hidden in the hand, so the later ones shown, with a dagger at each end, is more than doubtful to be a bagh nakh, as it can hardly be hidden the way it should be.

estcrh · 10th November 2015, 04:44 PM

There seems to be some difference in how people define a "parrying weapon", to me it needs to have a long blade or bar to parry a sword such as the example below.

estcrh · 10th November 2015, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Emanuel and Richard are right, the first one shown has nothing to do with a bagh nakh, it is for parrying maybe to spike the opponents shield.
The bagh nakh is 'tiger claws' hidden in the hand, so the later ones shown, with a dagger at each end, is more than doubtful to be a bagh nakh, as it can hardly be hidden the way it should be.

Jens, there is no rule that I know of that bagh nakh had to be hideable, many bagh nakh that I have seen could not actually have been hidden due to their size except maybe in the dark, some were smaller or had folding blades so it could be hidden but most that I have seen had several claws sticking out, not exactly something you could put into your front pocket. My bagh nakh is 5.25 in long with 1.5 in claws, not something you could easly hide. The word that Stone uses is "concealed", other descriptions do not mention "hidden" or "concealed" at all. Some bagh nakh did have blades attached making this form not hideable at all, these types maybe need a hyphenated name like the tabar-zaghnal but they are just as much a bagh nakh as a dagger.

A few references that do not mention "concealed" or "hidden".

On the left from "Chambers's Journal", W. & R. Chambers, 1892.

On the right from "Life in Bombay, and the neighbouring out-stations" Richard Bentley, 1852.

On the bottom from George Stone.

estcrh · 11th November 2015, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I do hope other examples of this type can be found, as I have never seen one in Egerton or Elgood or anywhere else. There surely had to be a name for this, as it does appear to have some age to it.

Best regards Richard.

Richard here is one more, this has seven pattern welded blades. These hybred type weapons are a bit hard to categorize.

Emanuel · 11th November 2015, 02:25 PM

Beautiful example Eric!

We're getting farther from the bagh nakh discussion but I wonder if this multi-bladed thing wasn't part of some ceremonial accoutrements like the garb of the High Executioner at the Delhi Durbar (attached pic). His arm guards look similar.

These things look very well built and to be made entirely from crucible steel must say something about their importance.

10th November 2015, 01:55 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon. Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon. I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar. Last edited by Emanuel; 10th November 2015 at 03:51 AM.

10th November 2015, 04:44 PM	#7
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	There seems to be some difference in how people define a "parrying weapon", to me it needs to have a long blade or bar to parry a sword such as the example below. Attached Images

11th November 2015, 02:25 PM	#10
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Beautiful example Eric! We're getting farther from the bagh nakh discussion but I wonder if this multi-bladed thing wasn't part of some ceremonial accoutrements like the garb of the High Executioner at the Delhi Durbar (attached pic). His arm guards look similar. These things look very well built and to be made entirely from crucible steel must say something about their importance. Attached Images

10th November 2015, 12:16 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I disagree with you Eric but I'll leave it at that. It remains that these are fascinating weapons

10th November 2015, 02:44 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Gentlemen, I know little of these weapons, but as a bagh nakh is a concealed weapon, I do not think we can call the weapon in question by this name, and as it would appear to be a secondary weapon, with say a longer blade in the other hand, I would say its use was for parrying. I do hope other examples of this type can be found, as I have never seen one in Egerton or Elgood or anywhere else. There surely had to be a name for this, as it does appear to have some age to it. Best regards Richard.

10th November 2015, 04:27 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Emanuel and Richard are right, the first one shown has nothing to do with a bagh nakh, it is for parrying maybe to spike the opponents shield. The bagh nakh is 'tiger claws' hidden in the hand, so the later ones shown, with a dagger at each end, is more than doubtful to be a bagh nakh, as it can hardly be hidden the way it should be.