Are these Bidri?

ALEX · 19th October 2015, 11:14 AM

Harry, good to have you back! I look forward to more of your posts. This is a great place to exchange ideas and learn, as inevitably we all learn one way or another). There are many great people here, it is a hobby for most of us, and many share their joy, passion and knowledge. And arguing one’s point is a good part of it, as Detlef nicely mentioned earlier.
As RSword said, it is important to enjoy the items, and more so if you feel it belongs to your collection and fit your collecting taste. I must admit, I have similar daggers like yours, but miniatures. I got them 10+ years ago and I like them as decorations. It is great that you’re observing the details and comparing quality. you right these daggers are not made yesterday, but I do not think they are early 1900’s, although you see them being described as such on some commercial and auction sites. As RSword and Kubur mentioned, they are late 1900’s. and both made at the same time, perhaps a few years apart, but this is really insignificant in historical realm. The third example, the Jambiya, is a crude repro, it has surface application similar to applying paint via template, it is not coftgari. The blades cannot be wootz on such items, they are always simple manipulated (pattern weld, layered, etc) steel, with similar type of applied "cartouche". The scabbard decoration is never bidri. Bidri uses carved inlay to fill in silver. Coftgari is surface overlay. The technique is really the same since early ages, this is why you see “similar” coftgari in Paul’s book, but the forms have changed, that is important to notice! and these daggers hardly fit into “Islamic arms” category.
See you down the road...

19th October 2015, 11:14 AM	#33
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Harry, good to have you back! I look forward to more of your posts. This is a great place to exchange ideas and learn, as inevitably we all learn one way or another). There are many great people here, it is a hobby for most of us, and many share their joy, passion and knowledge. And arguing one’s point is a good part of it, as Detlef nicely mentioned earlier. As RSword said, it is important to enjoy the items, and more so if you feel it belongs to your collection and fit your collecting taste. I must admit, I have similar daggers like yours, but miniatures. I got them 10+ years ago and I like them as decorations. It is great that you’re observing the details and comparing quality. you right these daggers are not made yesterday, but I do not think they are early 1900’s, although you see them being described as such on some commercial and auction sites. As RSword and Kubur mentioned, they are late 1900’s. and both made at the same time, perhaps a few years apart, but this is really insignificant in historical realm. The third example, the Jambiya, is a crude repro, it has surface application similar to applying paint via template, it is not coftgari. The blades cannot be wootz on such items, they are always simple manipulated (pattern weld, layered, etc) steel, with similar type of applied "cartouche". The scabbard decoration is never bidri. Bidri uses carved inlay to fill in silver. Coftgari is surface overlay. The technique is really the same since early ages, this is why you see “similar” coftgari in Paul’s book, but the forms have changed, that is important to notice! and these daggers hardly fit into “Islamic arms” category. See you down the road...