Ottoman/Balkan Grease/Bullet Container

rickystl · 18th October 2015, 05:12 PM

Hi Stu.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17586

I posted a similar one two years ago this month and received some great responses. You might want to read.
We know the larger containers with the hinged lids that were fabricated from brass, silver, etc. were used to carry pre-made combustable cartridges, often used with the large Horse pistols.
But these small ones are somewhat of a curiosity. And, as Kuber mentions, many of these small ones are probably not as old as we would like them to be.

But every one I've seen are made as a casting. Could be used to carry loose lead balls, grease or pre-greased patchs/patch material, flints, percussion caps, or ? I don't think anyone has been able to confirm their primary use. I wish I knew.

Thanks for posting. Here is mine that I posted two years ago.
Rick.

kahnjar1 · 18th October 2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Stu.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17586

I posted a similar one two years ago this month and received some great responses. You might want to read.
We know the larger containers with the hinged lids that were fabricated from brass, silver, etc. were used to carry pre-made combustable cartridges, often used with the large Horse pistols.
But these small ones are somewhat of a curiosity. And, as Kuber mentions, many of these small ones are probably not as old as we would like them to be.

But every one I've seen are made as a casting. Could be used to carry loose lead balls, grease or pre-greased patchs/patch material, flints, percussion caps, or ? I don't think anyone has been able to confirm their primary use. I wish I knew.

Thanks for posting. Here is mine that I posted two years ago.
Rick.

Hi Rick,
I do not expect that this is that old, but it cost way less than a meal at the local restaurant. I did hope to get some better idea of origin, and if possible a translation of the script. I note that the one you show does not have a hinged lid, so assume that the lid slides on the hanging cords (now missing) ??
As you suggest above, my one looks to be cast but until it arrives I can not be sure.
Stu

rickystl · 18th October 2015, 06:57 PM

Hi Stu.
Yes, the lid on mine just slides up and down on a cord/strap. I've seen both this style and the hinged style. I like your's better with the hinged lid and Arabic script - which I hope you can get translated. I agree with Kubur that these are probably Ottoman generally. Anyway, your's is a nice one.
Rick.

Kubur · 18th October 2015, 07:04 PM

Hi Rick,

I realise that I wasn't precise enough.
Here I post mine. I can see two "families" in these grease containers.
The first one with articulated suspensions supports and the later one with rigid supports. The later ones have always their original leather suspension.
It's the reason why they are probably from the end of the 19th c. and most probably from the beginning of the 20th c.
I will post some examples.

Kubur

Kubur · 18th October 2015, 07:12 PM

Few examples, same style, different shapes, grease containers.

Kubur · 18th October 2015, 07:22 PM

And now the primer flasks
Same style, same period for me early 20th c.
And yes, they are frequent on epray and very cheap.
On one flask I can read 1930 (Christian calendar), if you remember a recent post, I even said that they could be for early tourists, despite the fact that they look functional as Rick said previously...
And I'm very suspicious about the Arabic script on the late production, probably to attract more customers...
To conclude, we have two families the 19th c. one as the one depicted on the Greek painting in Rick's post and the later one, probably from Istanbul and tourist connected...
Kubur

rickystl · 18th October 2015, 07:59 PM

Hi Kubur.
I understand what you mean by the "two families". Thanks for the clarification.
It's somewhat hard to believe all the work in these little containers just to hold greese, and the like. But, "decoration" on all their weapons and accessories was commonplace.
My little container looks so plain compared to the others posted here.

Rick.

stelio · 19th October 2015, 05:26 PM

Hello my friends.
I m not sure for all that is grease container.I think someone used for different work,some is for grease and another for bullet or flintlock stone case. Some of this case is from ottoman empire and balkan area,and some else is from Persian. Some photos from my collection of this little bronze cases. My opinion is all that used from ottoman/balkan warriors in 19th century.
Stelios

kahnjar1 · 10th November 2015, 07:01 PM

There has been a lot of discussion as to what these SMALL containers were used for. The one I recently bought has a dry grey coloured powder residue inside.
I believe that this is flint dust.
1.Not likely to be powder residue due to fact the top does not seal tightly. Also the residue will not burn.
2.Not likely to be from lead balls as that would leave an attached colouration, and not a loose powder, and the balls would need to be VERY small.
3.Not likely grease or greased patches, as it is dry.
A container of this size would hold several flints, even those larger ones for muskets, so perhaps the use for these is solved??
Comments please.
Stu

18th October 2015, 05:12 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Stu. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17586 I posted a similar one two years ago this month and received some great responses. You might want to read. We know the larger containers with the hinged lids that were fabricated from brass, silver, etc. were used to carry pre-made combustable cartridges, often used with the large Horse pistols. But these small ones are somewhat of a curiosity. And, as Kuber mentions, many of these small ones are probably not as old as we would like them to be. But every one I've seen are made as a casting. Could be used to carry loose lead balls, grease or pre-greased patchs/patch material, flints, percussion caps, or ? I don't think anyone has been able to confirm their primary use. I wish I knew. Thanks for posting. Here is mine that I posted two years ago. Rick. Attached Images

18th October 2015, 07:04 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, I realise that I wasn't precise enough. Here I post mine. I can see two "families" in these grease containers. The first one with articulated suspensions supports and the later one with rigid supports. The later ones have always their original leather suspension. It's the reason why they are probably from the end of the 19th c. and most probably from the beginning of the 20th c. I will post some examples. Kubur Attached Images

18th October 2015, 07:12 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Few examples, same style, different shapes, grease containers. Attached Images

18th October 2015, 07:22 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	And now the primer flasks Same style, same period for me early 20th c. And yes, they are frequent on epray and very cheap. On one flask I can read 1930 (Christian calendar), if you remember a recent post, I even said that they could be for early tourists, despite the fact that they look functional as Rick said previously... And I'm very suspicious about the Arabic script on the late production, probably to attract more customers... To conclude, we have two families the 19th c. one as the one depicted on the Greek painting in Rick's post and the later one, probably from Istanbul and tourist connected... Kubur Attached Images

19th October 2015, 05:26 PM	#8
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 97	Hello my friends. I m not sure for all that is grease container.I think someone used for different work,some is for grease and another for bullet or flintlock stone case. Some of this case is from ottoman empire and balkan area,and some else is from Persian. Some photos from my collection of this little bronze cases. My opinion is all that used from ottoman/balkan warriors in 19th century. Stelios Attached Images

18th October 2015, 06:57 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Stu. Yes, the lid on mine just slides up and down on a cord/strap. I've seen both this style and the hinged style. I like your's better with the hinged lid and Arabic script - which I hope you can get translated. I agree with Kubur that these are probably Ottoman generally. Anyway, your's is a nice one. Rick.

18th October 2015, 07:59 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Kubur. I understand what you mean by the "two families". Thanks for the clarification. It's somewhat hard to believe all the work in these little containers just to hold greese, and the like. But, "decoration" on all their weapons and accessories was commonplace. My little container looks so plain compared to the others posted here. Rick.

10th November 2015, 07:01 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Container for Gun Flints???? There has been a lot of discussion as to what these SMALL containers were used for. The one I recently bought has a dry grey coloured powder residue inside. I believe that this is flint dust. 1.Not likely to be powder residue due to fact the top does not seal tightly. Also the residue will not burn. 2.Not likely to be from lead balls as that would leave an attached colouration, and not a loose powder, and the balls would need to be VERY small. 3.Not likely grease or greased patches, as it is dry. A container of this size would hold several flints, even those larger ones for muskets, so perhaps the use for these is solved?? Comments please. Stu