Kris question to the knowledgeables

Pusaka · 4th January 2006, 03:44 PM

You will often hear people say that a Keris should have an odd number of luk to be considered as a good keris. If you ask them why, they most certainly don’t know why.
If we count the number of luk on the side of Indra we will see that there is more then on the side of Vrtra. Symbolically it represents that the Keris is a good keris as Indra has won the battle over Vrtra.The right hand side aspects (good) win over the left hand aspects (evil). If the number of lux was even this would not be the case and the keris would then be considered a bad keris.

Pusaka · 4th January 2006, 05:51 PM

If we remember that Indra is a war god the elephant he rides is a battle elephant. War elephants often had headdresses attached to the head and trunk. These armour headdresses often had sharp spikes attached. This would explain the spikes on the Gajah as being an elephant armour headdress.

nechesh · 4th January 2006, 06:09 PM

Pusaka, i think you need to get your mode of thinking about the keris and it's significance out of the sphere of battles and war. Your martial thinking is not leading you to a proper understanding of the keris. Your concepts of "good vs. evil" are very western. Yes, the keris is in the form of an edged weapon, but it's significance goes deeper than that.

MABAGANI · 4th January 2006, 06:36 PM

On the contrary, one can't describe unity without leaving the field of unity, so there are guide posts or symbols to point the way which appear dualistic depending on the state of mind. too esoteric, pm

nechesh · 4th January 2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

On the contrary, one can't describe unity without leaving the field of unity, so there are guide posts or symbols to point the way which appear dualistic depending on the state of mind. too esoteric, pm

I am not questioning the dualistic approach per se as being too western, just the absolute B&W, good & evil understanding. Those who follow the cult of Kali are not necessarily "evil", they merely have a different perspective. Yes, it is esoteric and complex....

MABAGANI · 4th January 2006, 07:30 PM

Yes, and if everyone has the potential to reach truth, I would not expect every answer or path to be the same, or every keris/kris to fit into the same mold...its an open forum for minds to write freely

Rick · 4th January 2006, 06:38 PM

Please explain this ricikan and greneng with your vedic war elephant theory .
There are a fairly high percentage of keris that lack detail in the ricikan from Jawa and the Celebes ; I have even seen Moro kris with plain ricikan .

Pusaka · 4th January 2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Pusaka, i think you need to get your mode of thinking about the keris and it's significance out of the sphere of battles and war. Your martial thinking is not leading you to a proper understanding of the keris. Your concepts of "good vs. evil" are very western. Yes, the keris is in the form of an edged weapon, but it's significance goes deeper than that.

Ok since you seam to think that everything I have said is wrong then maybe you can correct me? Don’t give me the “I don’t know but I know your wrong” treatment because it’s not smart.

Andrew · 4th January 2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Ok since you seam to think that everything I have said is wrong then maybe you can correct me? Don’t give me the “I don’t know but I know your wrong” treatment because it’s not smart.

A fair request, Pusaka. But a bit defensive as phrased. Let's all take a breath and try to share information in a non-confrontational manner.

Thanks.

punal · 4th January 2006, 08:16 PM

You know guys, there's no place on earth where you can find a forum like this, it's breath taking! and I'm loving it every moment of it.
Please continue, it's very educational specially for a newbies like me.

Nice thread!

Rick · 4th January 2006, 08:31 PM

Have all involved in this discussion read these articles ?

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/KERISANDNAGA.html

http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris2/origin.html

IMO they're very important to read and digest whether you agree with the conclusions or not .

I personally come to the conclusion however disappointing it may be that the keris and its true history are lost to time and that discussing and interpreting the meanings are like trying to hold an egg with no shell .

There is no B&W answer , only opinions and interpretations and these vary from each societal period that the keris has existed through right up to the present .

4th January 2006, 03:44 PM	#1
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	You will often hear people say that a Keris should have an odd number of luk to be considered as a good keris. If you ask them why, they most certainly don’t know why. If we count the number of luk on the side of Indra we will see that there is more then on the side of Vrtra. Symbolically it represents that the Keris is a good keris as Indra has won the battle over Vrtra.The right hand side aspects (good) win over the left hand aspects (evil). If the number of lux was even this would not be the case and the keris would then be considered a bad keris. Attached Images Last edited by Pusaka; 4th January 2006 at 04:05 PM.

4th January 2006, 05:51 PM	#2
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	If we remember that Indra is a war god the elephant he rides is a battle elephant. War elephants often had headdresses attached to the head and trunk. These armour headdresses often had sharp spikes attached. This would explain the spikes on the Gajah as being an elephant armour headdress. Attached Images

4th January 2006, 06:38 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Please explain this ricikan and greneng with your vedic war elephant theory . There are a fairly high percentage of keris that lack detail in the ricikan from Jawa and the Celebes ; I have even seen Moro kris with plain ricikan . Attached Images

4th January 2006, 08:31 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Have all involved in this discussion read these articles ? http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/KERISANDNAGA.html http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris2/origin.html IMO they're very important to read and digest whether you agree with the conclusions or not . I personally come to the conclusion however disappointing it may be that the keris and its true history are lost to time and that discussing and interpreting the meanings are like trying to hold an egg with no shell . There is no B&W answer , only opinions and interpretations and these vary from each societal period that the keris has existed through right up to the present . Last edited by Rick; 4th January 2006 at 08:53 PM.

4th January 2006, 06:09 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Pusaka, i think you need to get your mode of thinking about the keris and it's significance out of the sphere of battles and war. Your martial thinking is not leading you to a proper understanding of the keris. Your concepts of "good vs. evil" are very western. Yes, the keris is in the form of an edged weapon, but it's significance goes deeper than that.

4th January 2006, 06:36 PM	#4
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	On the contrary, one can't describe unity without leaving the field of unity, so there are guide posts or symbols to point the way which appear dualistic depending on the state of mind. too esoteric, pm

4th January 2006, 07:30 PM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Yes, and if everyone has the potential to reach truth, I would not expect every answer or path to be the same, or every keris/kris to fit into the same mold...its an open forum for minds to write freely

4th January 2006, 08:16 PM	#10
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	You know guys, there's no place on earth where you can find a forum like this, it's breath taking! and I'm loving it every moment of it. Please continue, it's very educational specially for a newbies like me. Nice thread!