Unusual Hybrid Moro-Visayan Tenegre Sword?

Aslan Paladin · 8th October 2015, 04:41 PM

I forgot to mention that the sword has a chisel edge. I don't know of any Indonesian bladed weapon that has a chisel edge except for the Balinese wedung that I have and I don't know if a kalasan has one too. Unfortunately the sword was sold without a scabbard which would probably give some more clues as to the sword's origin.

Sajen · 8th October 2015, 06:43 PM

Hello Aslan Paladin,

first, welcome to the forum.

I think that you are on a good path with your observations. The blade seems also to my eyes from the Visayans and from a tenegre, I never have seen such a sword blade from Indonesia. Sorry Ian, kalasan blades look very different.
The ferrule look indeed like one from a barong, that's my first impression as well. And the hilt look indeed like hilts I've seen by Indonesian blades, i.e. from Bali, mostly by newer fittings from spear blades (tombak), see the pictures I've just taken from a tombak handle from my own collection, sorry for the poor quality.
My careful guess is indeed that you have there a sword put together from different parts, if recent from a seller in the western world or locally from a previous owner I can't say.

Best regards,
Detlef

Ian · 8th October 2015, 07:46 PM

Hi Detlef:

Sorry Detlef, not from a tenegre nor likely Visayan in my opinion (although the beveled edge is suggestive). That big "step" at forte (where the blade abruptly narrows) is not a feature of Visayan swords, even those from Negros that somewhat resemble the blade on the subject of this thread (see, for example, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6658).

I agree that the blade is not typical of a kalasan or balato, but I was trying to point to other slim, long-bladed swords that might have a similar ferrule and makara hilt. The makara is not a Visayan motif, and really suggests Indonesia.

The silver ferrule (punto) is plain and non-specific--could be Moro but could be from a number of other places too.

Possibly a marriage of pieces from various places. The pin through the horn hilt looks like a Western influence.

Ian.

Sajen · 8th October 2015, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Detlef:

Sorry Detlef, not from a tenegre nor likely Visayan in my opinion (although the beveled edge is suggestive). That big "step" at forte (where the blade abruptly narrows) is not a feature of Visayan swords, even those from Negros that somewhat resemble the blade on the subject of this thread (see, for example, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6658).

I agree that the blade is not typical of a kalasan or balato, but I was trying to point to other slim, long-bladed swords that might have a similar ferrule and makara hilt. The makara is not a Visayan motif, and really suggests Indonesia.

The silver ferrule (punto) is plain and non-specific--could be Moro but could be from a number of other places too.

Possibly a marriage of pieces from various places. The pin through the horn hilt looks like a Western influence.

Ian.

Hi Ian,

yes, I agree that the step at forte is very unusual, something I also never have seen before but like you say byself, the beveled edge is very suggestive and I am not aware of other blades from SEA with this feature and you can't find it by kalasans and balatos.

I agree also with you that the pin through the horn hilt looks like a western influence. And agree also that this sword could be a marriage from various places like pointed out already from Aslan, you and me. Very unusual piece. But don't look like it was composed yesterday.

Regards,
Detlef

8th October 2015, 06:43 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Aslan Paladin, first, welcome to the forum. I think that you are on a good path with your observations. The blade seems also to my eyes from the Visayans and from a tenegre, I never have seen such a sword blade from Indonesia. Sorry Ian, kalasan blades look very different. The ferrule look indeed like one from a barong, that's my first impression as well. And the hilt look indeed like hilts I've seen by Indonesian blades, i.e. from Bali, mostly by newer fittings from spear blades (tombak), see the pictures I've just taken from a tombak handle from my own collection, sorry for the poor quality. My careful guess is indeed that you have there a sword put together from different parts, if recent from a seller in the western world or locally from a previous owner I can't say. Best regards, Detlef Attached Images

8th October 2015, 04:41 PM	#1
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I forgot to mention that the sword has a chisel edge. I don't know of any Indonesian bladed weapon that has a chisel edge except for the Balinese wedung that I have and I don't know if a kalasan has one too. Unfortunately the sword was sold without a scabbard which would probably give some more clues as to the sword's origin.

8th October 2015, 07:46 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Hi Detlef: Sorry Detlef, not from a tenegre nor likely Visayan in my opinion (although the beveled edge is suggestive). That big "step" at forte (where the blade abruptly narrows) is not a feature of Visayan swords, even those from Negros that somewhat resemble the blade on the subject of this thread (see, for example, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6658). I agree that the blade is not typical of a kalasan or balato, but I was trying to point to other slim, long-bladed swords that might have a similar ferrule and makara hilt. The makara is not a Visayan motif, and really suggests Indonesia. The silver ferrule (punto) is plain and non-specific--could be Moro but could be from a number of other places too. Possibly a marriage of pieces from various places. The pin through the horn hilt looks like a Western influence. Ian.