African knights - African armour collection thread

[Robert]

Hello LinusLinothorax and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I have had to edit your first posting here. Please download your photos directly to the server as per forum rules.

Best,
Robert

[estcrh]

You can find a lot of armor images from both the Sudan and Khedival Egypt from the mid to late 1800s here.
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...ives-of-egypt/

Sudanese armor, European (English) in origin domed helmet with a spike finial, long camail terminating in three points, woven of heavy wound (split) links with original hand-quilted lining which protects the wearer’s chest, shoulders and back, hauberk probably 17th century Persian with rows of punched and riveted rings the original leather collar intact, a quality kaskara broadsword, 17th -19th century. Most likely worn by a follower of the Mahdi or his successor Abdullah Ibn-Mohammed during the late 1800s revolt against Khedival Egypt.

[Jim McDougall]

Linus, welcome to the forum, and thank you for bringing up an indeed intriguing topic!
It is true that many warrior groups in North Africa followed medieval warfare and weaponry remarkably in anachronistically surreal character. The use of mail, and various forms of armour, weapons and cavalry tactics had evolved over centuries in certain Sahelian kingdoms such as Bornu. These styles and weapons were likely brought into being through the Mamluk dynasties in Egypt and Syria, with weaponry and armour being diffused into Sudan then toward Chad and Nigeria. Certainly many of these kinds of items were carried through trade routes from European sources into Africa as well. With the volume of sword blades known to have come in, there must have been other equipment included as well.

By the time of the Mahdist period and the subsequent campaigns ending with Omdurman, there were indeed cavalry for the Egyptian Khedive he called his 'iron men'. Surprisingly, much of the mail worn by these warriors was actually produced in Birmingham, England. In time it was realized that this mail, when hit by bullets became shrapnel itself and maximized wounds.

Still, as far as ceremonially, mail was still very much 'parade oriented', just as in India and many other colonially occupied ethnographic regions.
I believe mail was still produced in Omdurman in times as late as the 1960s and think it was Arkell who wrote on this.
I can recall in one grouping of Sudanese armour, there was at least one helmet which incredibly was using a spoon from a silverware setting as a noseguard or decoration.

For the record though, the wearing of mail was not confined only to Africa in relatively modern times. In Caucasian Georgia, during the early years of WWI, Russian forces were astounded to see armoured horsemen ride into Tiflis, with helmets and mail as if right out of the Crusades. They were Khevsur warriors who were still wearing these armours into the 1930s.

There are many other instances as well of these incredibly out of time instances, and hope to see others brought in.
Great topic!!!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Still, as far as ceremonially, mail was still very much 'parade oriented', just as in India and many other colonially occupied ethnographic regions.

Jim, what makes you say this? Riveted mail from Indian, Persia and the Ottoman Empire was some of the strongest mail ever made, and in hand to hand combat it would keep you from being cut to pieces by a sword, mail of any type was never meant to be a defense against firearms.

In Japan, when traditional armor had been stored away unused for generations, mail armor was still worn by samurai right up to the end.

Much of the fighting in the Sudan involved intense hand to hand combat, I am sure that good quality riveted mail was highly valued, even the locally produced Sudanese butted mail was a good defense against a sword.

Some very late Indo-Persian mail was butted instead of being riveted, but there was still plenty of the old riveted mail to go around.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Jim, what makes you say this? Riveted mail from Indian, Persia and the Ottoman Empire was some of the strongest mail ever made, and in hand to hand combat it would keep you from being cut to pieces by a sword, mail of any type was never meant to be a defense against firearms.

In Japan, when traditional armor had been stored away unused for generations, mail armor was still worn by samurai right up to the end.

Much of the fighting in the Sudan involved intense hand to hand combat, I am sure that good quality riveted mail was highly valued, even the locally produced Sudanese butted mail was a good defense against a sword.

Some very late Indo-Persian mail was butted instead of being riveted, but there was still plenty of the old riveted mail to go around.

I was referring more to the Sudanese instance, and even then of course it would defer a degree of impact from swords etc........so what I should have qualified was that while much of the mail was ceremonially oriented, of course there was substantial mail in the contexts you mention which could offer some protection. Of course whenever firearms came into the equation that was pretty much all bets off. Thanks for the correction.

[LinusLinothorax]

Great pics estcrh. This is what i would like to see here in this thread

[eftihis]

I bought these 2 mail shirts described as "PROBABLY OTTOMAN 18TH/19TH CENTURY, LATER ADAPTED FOR USE IN NORTH AFRICA", "....formed of alternating rows of welded and riveted rings of circular-section wire, with a centrally-divided neck-opening, a pair of short sleeves and a short skirt centrally divided at both its front and rear, the upper edge of the neck-opening extended upwards during working life with a strip of mail of of alternating rows of welded and riveted..."
I see they have a leather covered neck area as shown in the photo of the turban wearing horsemen.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by eftihis

I bought these 2 mail shirts described as "PROBABLY OTTOMAN 18TH/19TH CENTURY, LATER ADAPTED FOR USE IN NORTH AFRICA", "...

Nice find, they look to be in good condition do you have a weight and length for them, can you post some close up images of the links, that would be the only way to determine who actually made them.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

By the time of the Mahdist period and the subsequent campaigns ending with Omdurman, there were indeed cavalry for the Egyptian Khedive he called his 'iron men'. Surprisingly, much of the mail worn by these warriors was actually produced in Birmingham, England. In time it was realized that this mail, when hit by bullets became shrapnel itself and maximized wounds.

It is very hard to pin down exact dates as to when specific armor types were used in Khedival Egypt, there are a few images, but I do not know of any photographs showing Khedive soldiers wearing armor.

At some point in time certain mounted soldiers of the Khedives forces switched to French made, heavy steel helmets and cuirasses, they appear to have been worn between the mid to late 1800s. Since Khedival Egypt was still nominally Ottoman this armor could be called the last Ottoman armor.

[LinusLinothorax]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello LinusLinothorax and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I have had to edit your first posting here. Please download your photos directly to the server as per forum rules.

Best,
Robert

Ah, sorry about that. Now they should be properly attached