New acquisition; Sundang for comment

[drac2k]

Gentlemen, in regards to the etching , I will consider it .
In regards to the silver dressings on the hilt, it could very well be later work, to enhance the piece for sale, however I'm curious as to what is missing or why the job was only half done ? It doesn't appear that the sword has suffered any great trauma so how would a half dressed hilt be more commercially viable?
Ian, I think you made a very good argument and supported it very well with your documentation and I have no problem accepting it

[CharlesS]

Ian,

Good thread and some good points.

Regarding Artzi's example, it is also pretty clear that the grip cording there is much later and not in the generally seen traditional Moro style.

Your comments regarding the silver works made me immediately revisit my comments regarding the grip cording on drak2k's example. I tried to enlarge the pics but could not. I had assumed that what I saw there was thin, thread-like cording, but now I am not so sure it is cording at all....we will need a confirmation or input from drak2k. I saw...what I originally thought was...worn broken cording. Upon a secondary look, I think it may be cloth or paper that has been tinted or painted black to simulate the cording that would be there. Note the breaks are too clean, and there are no loose single cords!!!

To me this works towards confirming your idea regarding the hilt, and it has taught me a good lesson on not taking quick glances too seriously in lieu of much closer inspection!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Your comments regarding the silver works made me immediately revisit my comments regarding the grip cording on drak2k's example. I tried to enlarge the pics but could not. I had assumed that what I saw there was thin, thread-like cording, but now I am not so sure it is cording at all....we will need a confirmation or input from drak2k. I saw...what I originally thought was...worn broken cording. Upon a secondary look, I think it may be cloth or paper that has been tinted or painted black to simulate the cording that would be there. Note the breaks are too clean, and there are no loose single cords!!!(

Hello Charles,

have a look to post #6 & #8, I've asked drac2k already about this.

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Ian, i would not necessarily argue with you that the silver rings on Drac's hilt are a more recent addition, however, i will question whether the semicircular marks, sinuous vines, etc., and scalloped edges to the bands are only something to be found post 1970s on Moro weapons. Of course, i can't speak for this kris beyond 1980 when i purchased it, but i pulled it out of an old antique mall in a barn in New Hampshire where it had obviously been languishing for quite some time. The silverwork is of a higher quality than the examples shown here and i believe that quality of the silver itself is higher as well. The asang-asang is suassa. The cording was gone and the red stuff was something i added at the time (this was my first and i was completely ignorant of what type of cording to use and never got around to changing it) and whatever was attached to the pommel was long gone.
While i'm not sure i can immediately find another kris as an example these two gunongs that are certainly from around 1900 also use semicircular marks and scalloped edges, so it is clearly a design element that was found in Moro weapons long before 1970.

[CharlesS]

David,

To my eyes(clearly failing...see above!) the quality of the silver work on the kriss you have shown us is quite different and in a different league quality-wise than drak2k's. Yours l believe in superior both in workmanship and actual silver quality(content).

Battara is the guy to better comment on that.

[David]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

David,

To my eyes(clearly failing...see above!) the quality of the silver work on the kriss you have shown us is quite different and in a different league quality-wise than drak2k's. Yours l believe in superior both in workmanship and actual silver quality(content).

Battara is the guy to better comment on that.

Yes Charles, i completely agree. The quality is indeed much higher and the silver is a higher quality as well. I posted it in response to Ian's suggestion that "semicircular marks, sinuous vines, etc., and scalloped edges to the bands" was something introduced to Moro weapons in the 1950s. I do agree with Ian that Drac's example probably had these silver bands added later in the life of the weapon, but i believe these motifs and design elements have been used in Moro work since at least 1900.

[David]

Here is another old kris hilt with silver bands that displays some elements of semi-circles and what might be described as scalloped edges. Please forgive the bad photography of a quick iPhone photo.