Kris question to the knowledgeables

MABAGANI · 30th December 2005, 06:32 AM

As for the origins of the kris or precusor from keris to kris, I've written my opinions on previous threads. I put the link because Mindanao and Sulu royals trace their heritage to this region Johore, Melaka and Sumatra. The history site of Malaysia and Indonesia gives an overview during the 15th and 16th centuries and their connection and cause for migration from the Johore area to Brunei, Mindanao and Sulu. I'd still stand by my statements that the "archaic" kris changed from the keris during the reign of Sultan Kudrat and his father of Mindanao in the early to mid 17th century when the various sultanates unified in their struggle against foreign aggression and a symbolic form of the kris was created to indicate their relation to other Islamic Malay Sultanates. The kris transitions from dagger to sword when the Mindanao and Sulu sultanates continued to remain unconquered, therefore furthering the evolution from keris to kris. This would have been the same period when the major groups the Maranao, Maguindanao and Tausug showed their unification and made their forms of the kris yet kept their stylistic forms found in the trunk section which showed their specific point of origin. This is IMHO, search my threads again for references.

Andrew · 30th December 2005, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

As for the origins of the kris or precusor from keris to kris, I've written my opinions on previous threads. I put the link because Mindanao and Sulu royals trace their heritage to this region Johore, Melaka and Sumatra. The history site of Malaysia and Indonesia gives an overview during the 15th and 16th centuries and their connection and cause for migration from the Johore area to Brunei, Mindanao and Sulu. I'd still stand by my statements that the "archaic" kris changed from the keris during the reign of Sultan Kudrat and his father of Mindanao in the early to mid 17th century when the various sultanates unified in their struggle against foreign aggression and a symbolic form of the kris was created to indicate their relation to other Islamic Malay Sultanates. The kris transitions from dagger to sword when the Mindanao and Sulu sultanates continued to remain unconquered, therefore furthering the evolution from keris to kris. This would have been the same period when the major groups the Maranao, Maguindanao and Tausug showed their unification and made their forms of the kris yet kept their stylistic forms found in the trunk section which showed their specific point of origin. This is IMHO, search my threads again for references.

Thank you for the clarification. I've been a spectator in the various threads you've referenced, so I'm at least minimally aware of how this discussion has evolved.

I'm still a bit confused, and I've sent you a PM.

Antonio Cejunior · 30th December 2005, 11:06 AM

Hi Mabagani,

Thanks for the link and the rest.
I humbly think that information scattered on threads could be organized so as to better be acessed by everyone.
I wouldn't mind host it if necessary. The point is that my time is not that much concerning seeking all threads and reading them all at this point.

I also have received some pages from Cato's book.

Thanks

MABAGANI · 30th December 2005, 02:18 PM

Some of my writings regarding the timeline run contrary to the author cited but I've substantiated my statements in various threads.

30th December 2005, 06:32 AM	#1
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	As for the origins of the kris or precusor from keris to kris, I've written my opinions on previous threads. I put the link because Mindanao and Sulu royals trace their heritage to this region Johore, Melaka and Sumatra. The history site of Malaysia and Indonesia gives an overview during the 15th and 16th centuries and their connection and cause for migration from the Johore area to Brunei, Mindanao and Sulu. I'd still stand by my statements that the "archaic" kris changed from the keris during the reign of Sultan Kudrat and his father of Mindanao in the early to mid 17th century when the various sultanates unified in their struggle against foreign aggression and a symbolic form of the kris was created to indicate their relation to other Islamic Malay Sultanates. The kris transitions from dagger to sword when the Mindanao and Sulu sultanates continued to remain unconquered, therefore furthering the evolution from keris to kris. This would have been the same period when the major groups the Maranao, Maguindanao and Tausug showed their unification and made their forms of the kris yet kept their stylistic forms found in the trunk section which showed their specific point of origin. This is IMHO, search my threads again for references.

30th December 2005, 11:06 AM	#3
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Hi Mabagani, Thanks for the link and the rest. I humbly think that information scattered on threads could be organized so as to better be acessed by everyone. I wouldn't mind host it if necessary. The point is that my time is not that much concerning seeking all threads and reading them all at this point. I also have received some pages from Cato's book. Thanks

30th December 2005, 02:18 PM	#4
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Some of my writings regarding the timeline run contrary to the author cited but I've substantiated my statements in various threads.