Omani barrel.

[rickystl]

Hello all.
OK. Now I understand. A two-piece barrel joined together by forge welding. That makes sense. So the barrels appear to have become dis-joined or seperated at the weld when forced to endure the worst possible stress conditions (over loaded, multiple loads, bore obstruction, etc.). That first ring, or joint where the two pieces overlap, would be the weak spot in the barrel, if forced to burst.
I'm sure these barrels would be unlikely to burst with NORMAL loads of black powder and soft lead balls. But even a one-piece steel barrel can fail if improperly loaded and/or forced to submit to excess stess.
Thanks for the knowledge here and an interesting Thread.
Rick.

[Pukka Bundook]

Update to this old thread;
Having now two barrels of this type in hand, the barrel interiors have a somewhat constricted breech for the last few inches, and do not open out into a larger powder chamber as we so often encounter on Torador barrels.
Both barrels are a joy to look at, and are very slim and beautifully made. Both will be stocked up, (as time permits!)

Best,
Richard.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

One day, one of these barrels will come my way. LOL

The slightly restricted area the last few inches towards the breech is interesting. I just wonder what their thinking was in regards to ballistics. Hmmm. The more I seem to learn about these barrels, the more confused I become. LOL !! If you get a chance, please post some photos.
The re-stocking should make for an interesting project. For sure, they have to be the most beautiful looking barrels I've ever seen. Imagine the man hours that went into making just one barrel. Boggles the mind. Again, congrats on receiving them.

Rick

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

One aspect of loading these barrels springs to mind... The ammunition. These round lead balls were rammed so hard down the barrel that they became elongated ...ironically more like the shape of modern bullets. The most common cause of barrels parting was the use of modern powder often using the contents of Martini Henry ammo..coupled with ramming some sort of plug or bullet down the barrel making the breach create too much pressure and the resulting barrel parting at the first join...or worse the catastrophic disintegration of the entire breach section and peeling back of the entire gun barrel at that point

[Pukka Bundook]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The parting of these barrels is a puzzlement to me, but well understand that a modern nitro powder is more than capable of such destruction.

These are the barrels that Robin Wiggington said were from "another part of India " when addressing two such barrels in Tipu Sultan's collection.
(Stocked up actually in a more modern European style, with snapping mechanisms and self-opening pans!)
Elgood believes Persian, though.

What I Do Not understand is;
Why do we not see these barrels on Persian arms, (correct me if I am wrong)
Or on Indian arms very often? I know of the two previously mentioned in Tipu Sultan's armoury, and One other from Sind, stocked in the Afghan style.
One would imagine wherever they came from before being traded into Oman, there would have been Some of them left in the country of origin.

Of interest is the fact that the cartouches in Tipu's barrels had Also been removed, so these and the ones you have Ibrahiim, may have had said cartouches removed for a Very long time!
Question if I may Ibrahiim;
Have you seen any of these barrels with the silver cartouche still in place?

Thank you for your time.
Richard.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The parting of these barrels is a puzzlement to me, but well understand that a modern nitro powder is more than capable of such destruction.

These are the barrels that Robin Wiggington said were from "another part of India " when addressing two such barrels in Tipu Sultan's collection.
(Stocked up actually in a more modern European style, with snapping mechanisms and self-opening pans!)
Elgood believes Persian, though.

What I Do Not understand is;
Why do we not see these barrels on Persian arms, (correct me if I am wrong)
Or on Indian arms very often? I know of the two previously mentioned in Tipu Sultan's armoury, and One other from Sind, stocked in the Afghan style.
One would imagine wherever they came from before being traded into Oman, there would have been Some of them left in the country of origin.

Of interest is the fact that the cartouches in Tipu's barrels had Also been removed, so these and the ones you have Ibrahiim, may have had said cartouches removed for a Very long time!
Question if I may Ibrahiim;
Have you seen any of these barrels with the silver cartouche still in place?

Thank you for your time.
Richard.

The answer is I don't know the answer! This stuff is getting very rare however...I would estimate the number of battle swords left in Oman at less than 20...and I have never seen a spear except in books/museums....ever. How many barrels are left out there... not many...Please see http://www.muscatdaily.com/Archive/O...d-viewing-1znc and my thread at Canons of Oman where it is considered at the time that a number of Abu Futilla were European/German.

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for your reply, Ibrahiim.

Sad to think there are so few left out 'in the wild'!
Thank you for your link, a very interesting read, thouhg I had read it previously. :-)

Although some think possibly German origin for barrels of this type, I think the much stronger nod goes to Persia, as there is a Very close relationship (To me at any rate) between the ornamentation of the priming pan, And the guard finials found on the pulouar type of sword.
(The same ornamentation can also be seen on the rear sight of these barrels. )
Why this " dragon" design was so popular I don't know. But it is not the Only thing I don't know!
I have been looking on -line at arms from up in Sind and into Afghanistan, and there are a few of these barrels to be seen from that area! They are to be seen stocked up in the Afghan/ Sindi manner with the wide -flared buttstock. As this area of the world opens up into Persia, (Iran) the case seems Very strong for the latter being the origin of these barrels.

I will find and attach a photo of the pulouar hilt as time permits.

Best regards,
Richard.

[BANDOOK]

FOUND THIS WHILE READING FIREARMS OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD,INDIA AND MYSORE KINGDOM OF TIPU SULTAN PERIOD
CONNECTION OF MANY TORADOR BARRELS ENDED UP IN OMAN

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The parting of these barrels is a puzzlement to me, but well understand that a modern nitro powder is more than capable of such destruction.

These are the barrels that Robin Wiggington said were from "another part of India " when addressing two such barrels in Tipu Sultan's collection.
(Stocked up actually in a more modern European style, with snapping mechanisms and self-opening pans!)
Elgood believes Persian, though.

What I Do Not understand is;
Why do we not see these barrels on Persian arms, (correct me if I am wrong)
Or on Indian arms very often? I know of the two previously mentioned in Tipu Sultan's armoury, and One other from Sind, stocked in the Afghan style.
One would imagine wherever they came from before being traded into Oman, there would have been Some of them left in the country of origin.

Of interest is the fact that the cartouches in Tipu's barrels had Also been removed, so these and the ones you have Ibrahiim, may have had said cartouches removed for a Very long time!
Question if I may Ibrahiim;
Have you seen any of these barrels with the silver cartouche still in place?

Thank you for your time.
Richard.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams BANDOOK...

EXCELLENT DETAIL !!!! Thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.