A Good Malay Sundang With One Piece Carved Horn Hilt

[Ian]

Hi Ron:

I was looking at both Maurice's and Charles' swords and noted that Charles' hilt has the traditional pommel that is sometimes called a kakatua. The pommel on Charles' sword has an abstractness of quite similar design to what we see on Moro hilts. I'm not suggesting that the Moro design is necessarily derived from the Malay form, but it is conceivable that this style originated to the south and was imported into the Moro territories where it evolved further. Unfortunately, the historical record is silent as to its origin or possible diffusion.

Then we have Maurice's hilt which bears a striking similarity in form to Charles' hilt, but Maurice's pommel is clearly a bird with a powerful hooked beak. I would propose that Maurice's version likely predated Charles', and that the more abstract form is depicted more realistically in Maurice's example. Now I don't know how old these two pieces are, and I don't think we will be able to find out their relative ages, but it seems reasonable to me to think that the more realistic representation preceded the more abstract form which is common today. This would be consistent with greater Islamic influence over time, with its emphasis on less realistic representations in art and spiritual matters.

Just what the bird on Maurice's hilt may be is also open to discussion, but the powerful beak could be from a raptor, parrot, cockatoo, or a number of other species. The fact that the head appears to have a crest rules out several species, which is why I said it more likely resembled a cockatoo than many of the other possibilities.

There seems to be an obvious hypothesis one could make from these observations. However, I don't want to hijack this thread by getting into the origins of the Moro kris and its hilt styles. Starting another thread may be the way to go.

Ian.

[Spunjer]

i have a badik (?) in my collection that has a similar motif, but one can clearly see a parrot.

Now I don't know how old these two pieces are, and I don't think we will be able to find out their relative ages, but it seems reasonable to me to think that the more realistic representation preceded the more abstract form which is common today.

question is, which came first? the Moro sundang, or the Malay sundang? if it's the latter, then we can safely assume what you have stated. now if it's the former then there's a possibility that it could be a case of pareidolia, in this instance a non-Moro's impression of the pommel is that of a birdhead as oppose to what it actually represents especially for a someone that uses parrot as a motif, this would be their first impression
just my two cents...

[Gavin Nugent]

In my opinion Ron, Maurice's Sundang hilt is that of the Blyth Hawk Eagle, specifically native to the Malay regions that their Sundangs are found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blyth%27s_hawk-eagle

http://www.eagledirectory.org/specie...awk_eagle.html

Gavin

[David]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

question is, which came first? the Moro sundang, or the Malay sundang?

Aye, there's the rub?
Which came first? My ideas on this could be wrong, but it has always been my impression that the Moro kris/kalis developed first from the Indonesian keris (influenced by Bali and/or perhaps Bugis styles) and that the Malay sundang developed after the Moro kris forming a circle of influence. One reason i believe this is simply that we can actually see the development of Moro kris from the Indonesian stabbing weapon it emulated into the slashing blade that it became by looking at the early "archaic" forms and watching the transformation over time into the larger, chunkier sword it became. I don't see those transitions in the Malay form of sundang. It seems to appear in it's earliest forms as a fully developed slashing sword. While the "kakatau" pommels discussed here have a more developed form, most of the pommels i have seen on Malay Sundang seem more a copied form from the Moro kris with less line and definition. My understanding of this has been that the Malay copied this hilt form and made it their own without fully understanding the intended symbolism of the Moro pommel, placing upon it the bird head explanation since such motifs and symbolic usage were common in their culture. So if i take Ron's two cents and add my three, hopefully we have a nickel.