I'd Like to Learn More About this Interesting Badek/Badik

Sajen · 12th August 2015, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Nice Badik Charles.

Never a regular piece in your collection :-)

Maybe you can check this thread with a sword combining islam inscription with swastika's.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=banjarmasin

Also I would like to refer to blunderbusses with swastika motifs being used in Atjeh.

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,

thank you for remembering me that I have seen the swastika symbol before on Muslim blades!

Regards,
Detlef

CharlesS · 12th August 2015, 08:59 PM

Detlef,

Thanks for your input. It is certainly most interesting and a bit of s head-scatcher that these swastikas are on clearly Muslim blades. That said, Indonesian Islam may be the most liberal in the world in terms of incorporating pre-Islamic ideas into the religion.

Willem,

Thanks for reposting that thread. Isn't it interesting that the design is almsot identical in detail to the one on my badek?

Thanks for all the input.

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2015, 11:15 PM

In the Indonesian context, and especially where we find the continuous, lattice-like, svastika motif, the correct name of the motif is 'banji'. It is a widespread and very common fill motif throughout all of the Indonesian Archipelago.

It is an extremely old motif and was present in many cultures spread across the world --- Scandinavia, Peru, China, India. In S.E. Asia it was first present in the Dongson culture, but was not very frequently used.

In Hindu culture it is the monogram of Wisnu and Siwa, in China it has a number of Buddhist associations. The crampons can turn either to the right or to the left, where they turn to the left it is called a sauvastika and is supposedly the first of 65 auspicious signs found in the footprint of The Buddha. There seems to be an association between the svastika and the Mystic Knot.

Iconographically it is associated with fire and the creation of fire, and also with the sun, and from this association, with Aryan and Vedic fire worship, the fire of course being tied to the sun. In the Zoroastrian system of belief it is representative of the sun. Some scholars claim the existence of this symbol dates from neolithic times.

You could write a book --- or maybe a whole library of books --- on the iconographic, cultural and social manifestations of this symbol.

It seems unlikely that it entered later Javanese/Balinese societies from Dongson origins, because of the time gap. It was certainly present in Hindu-Buddhist Jawa, but may have entered Jawa from China. Jawa is the key to its spread throughout the rest of the Archipelago, as Javanese culture was the dominant culture in Maritime S.E. Asia from around 1000CE.

CharlesS · 12th August 2015, 11:37 PM

Thanks so much for that input A.J. Maisey. It was through the Indonesian culture that I wanted to learn more about the context of this system of interlocking 'swastikas', knowing that it predated Islamic influences. You have done that beautifully. Thanks again.

Sajen · 12th August 2015, 11:39 PM

Hello Alan,

it was my hope that you join in and was sure that you will be able to tell us much more about the swastika symbol special in context to the Indonesian Archipelago. Useful information and I see again that I still have to read a lot.

Thank you for the sign-posting.

Regards,
Detlef

asomotif · 13th August 2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

.......
It seems unlikely that it entered later Javanese/Balinese societies from Dongson origins, because of the time gap. It was certainly present in Hindu-Buddhist Jawa, but may have entered Jawa from China. Jawa is the key to its spread throughout the rest of the Archipelago, as Javanese culture was the dominant culture in Maritime S.E. Asia from around 1000CE.

Thanks Alan for the compact and yet broad oriented information.

Reading the China / Java link I thought of a rattan suitcase I have.
Early to mid 20th century and used by a dutch soldier, maybe for shipping his stuff back home. Not extremely relevant, but one of the many examples using this symbol for decoration.

Ps. note how the motifs are mirrored. one with arms pointing left, the other pointing right.

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 13th August 2015, 11:00 PM

This suitcase looks like Chinese work.

I feel that we can be pretty certain that the use of the swastika motif here is purely for commercial ornamentation, but it does demonstrate how common the use of this particular motif is.

12th August 2015, 08:59 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Detlef, Thanks for your input. It is certainly most interesting and a bit of s head-scatcher that these swastikas are on clearly Muslim blades. That said, Indonesian Islam may be the most liberal in the world in terms of incorporating pre-Islamic ideas into the religion. Willem, Thanks for reposting that thread. Isn't it interesting that the design is almsot identical in detail to the one on my badek? Thanks for all the input.

12th August 2015, 11:15 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In the Indonesian context, and especially where we find the continuous, lattice-like, svastika motif, the correct name of the motif is 'banji'. It is a widespread and very common fill motif throughout all of the Indonesian Archipelago. It is an extremely old motif and was present in many cultures spread across the world --- Scandinavia, Peru, China, India. In S.E. Asia it was first present in the Dongson culture, but was not very frequently used. In Hindu culture it is the monogram of Wisnu and Siwa, in China it has a number of Buddhist associations. The crampons can turn either to the right or to the left, where they turn to the left it is called a sauvastika and is supposedly the first of 65 auspicious signs found in the footprint of The Buddha. There seems to be an association between the svastika and the Mystic Knot. Iconographically it is associated with fire and the creation of fire, and also with the sun, and from this association, with Aryan and Vedic fire worship, the fire of course being tied to the sun. In the Zoroastrian system of belief it is representative of the sun. Some scholars claim the existence of this symbol dates from neolithic times. You could write a book --- or maybe a whole library of books --- on the iconographic, cultural and social manifestations of this symbol. It seems unlikely that it entered later Javanese/Balinese societies from Dongson origins, because of the time gap. It was certainly present in Hindu-Buddhist Jawa, but may have entered Jawa from China. Jawa is the key to its spread throughout the rest of the Archipelago, as Javanese culture was the dominant culture in Maritime S.E. Asia from around 1000CE.

12th August 2015, 11:37 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Thanks so much for that input A.J. Maisey. It was through the Indonesian culture that I wanted to learn more about the context of this system of interlocking 'swastikas', knowing that it predated Islamic influences. You have done that beautifully. Thanks again.

12th August 2015, 11:39 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Alan, it was my hope that you join in and was sure that you will be able to tell us much more about the swastika symbol special in context to the Indonesian Archipelago. Useful information and I see again that I still have to read a lot. Thank you for the sign-posting. Regards, Detlef

13th August 2015, 11:00 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This suitcase looks like Chinese work. I feel that we can be pretty certain that the use of the swastika motif here is purely for commercial ornamentation, but it does demonstrate how common the use of this particular motif is.