Three spears for comment

Justin · 25th December 2005, 01:44 AM

I agree ,the first two are probably Indonesian,but the last barbed one could be Indonesian or African.

All nice pieces,congrats!

Henk · 25th December 2005, 09:10 AM

Thanks for your comments Battara and Justin,

But Indonesian for the first two puzzles me a bit.
If i compare these blades to my tombaks, they differ so much. The blades are smooth like they are polished but still wear the signs of forging. The surface of the tombaks are rough and wear the signs of etching with warangan.
The base of the blades differ also to the tombaks. The peksi of the tombak is round and the angle of the smallest blade wich is good visible is square.
My tombaks all have a round mendak shape forged ring were the peksi ends and the blade starts, but I know that not every tombak has such a methuk. At that point the blade of the tombak have edged sides while the spear blades have thick unsharp edges. Those blades look so unindonesian to me that I really doubt they come from Indonesia.

Justin · 26th December 2005, 04:06 AM

Not all Indonesian stuff is pamor.I am sure I have seen both the first two spears pictured in 'Weapons of the Indonesian Arch.' I could be wrong but I think they are Sumatran, and not necessarily 'tomboks'.

Henk · 26th December 2005, 09:41 AM

A bit too much focused on pamor, I guess. You're right, Justin. I will take a look in my books if I run up to such sumatran spears. Thanks for putting me back on earth

Battara · 26th December 2005, 11:09 AM

Yes, Justin brings up an excellent point (again like the one on my head

). There are some spears from Borneo that also do not have pamor, or at least not noticable pamor. In fact, some Borneo tombak may be Moro or linked to Moro spears since there are Moros living on and around Borneo. This may explain the square peksi (though I have seen mostly round Moro peksi).

Henk · 26th December 2005, 12:12 PM

Justin and Battara,

You guys are completely right. I've been stupid and ignorant. I just looked through the book by Van Zonneveld and guess what? Just search the page with spears and you know enough. The most beautiful examples in wich the first two spears just lovely would fit in. Those two probably come from Sumatra or Borneo.

Thanks again guys for opening my eyes.

Has anybody still an idea about the third one? The spear mouth, if i may call it that way, is wrapped with copper wire.

Justin · 26th December 2005, 04:26 PM

Glad to help,

.

The third one is tricky. The barbs make me think its African,and it may well be,but overall it seems Indonesian as well,if you bought it with the other two then I would suspect it may be from the same place as the first two.

They definately had barbed spears next door in the Philippines:

http://www.aiusa.com/medsword/rila/krieger.html

25th December 2005, 01:44 AM	#1
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 180	I agree ,the first two are probably Indonesian,but the last barbed one could be Indonesian or African. All nice pieces,congrats!

25th December 2005, 09:10 AM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Thanks for your comments Battara and Justin, But Indonesian for the first two puzzles me a bit. If i compare these blades to my tombaks, they differ so much. The blades are smooth like they are polished but still wear the signs of forging. The surface of the tombaks are rough and wear the signs of etching with warangan. The base of the blades differ also to the tombaks. The peksi of the tombak is round and the angle of the smallest blade wich is good visible is square. My tombaks all have a round mendak shape forged ring were the peksi ends and the blade starts, but I know that not every tombak has such a methuk. At that point the blade of the tombak have edged sides while the spear blades have thick unsharp edges. Those blades look so unindonesian to me that I really doubt they come from Indonesia.

26th December 2005, 04:06 AM	#3
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 180	Not all Indonesian stuff is pamor.I am sure I have seen both the first two spears pictured in 'Weapons of the Indonesian Arch.' I could be wrong but I think they are Sumatran, and not necessarily 'tomboks'.

26th December 2005, 09:41 AM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	A bit too much focused on pamor, I guess. You're right, Justin. I will take a look in my books if I run up to such sumatran spears. Thanks for putting me back on earth

26th December 2005, 11:09 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Yes, Justin brings up an excellent point (again like the one on my head ). There are some spears from Borneo that also do not have pamor, or at least not noticable pamor. In fact, some Borneo tombak may be Moro or linked to Moro spears since there are Moros living on and around Borneo. This may explain the square peksi (though I have seen mostly round Moro peksi).

26th December 2005, 12:12 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Justin and Battara, You guys are completely right. I've been stupid and ignorant. I just looked through the book by Van Zonneveld and guess what? Just search the page with spears and you know enough. The most beautiful examples in wich the first two spears just lovely would fit in. Those two probably come from Sumatra or Borneo. Thanks again guys for opening my eyes. Has anybody still an idea about the third one? The spear mouth, if i may call it that way, is wrapped with copper wire.

26th December 2005, 04:26 PM	#7
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 180	Glad to help, . The third one is tricky. The barbs make me think its African,and it may well be,but overall it seems Indonesian as well,if you bought it with the other two then I would suspect it may be from the same place as the first two. They definately had barbed spears next door in the Philippines: http://www.aiusa.com/medsword/rila/krieger.html