Research

[Rich]

I research every knife and sword I own and document them in writing and with string tags on most of them (when the tags will fit). That includes type (name), maker (if that can be determined), date, culture, etc. Without the research it is just a pile of misc. sharp pointy things. Wish I could contribute more to this forum, but my interests are pretty specialized; Nihonto and puukko (and a few other sharp pointy things).
Rich

[A.alnakkas]

Currently doing a research on Gulf Arab arms and its far from done. But some interesting info on Saudi made swords and Omani ones that I hope to compile soon (ish)

[A. G. Maisey]

Jens, you have asked a very relevant question, and one that is a constant part of my own musings on the idea of "collecting", however, might it be possible to define what the word "research" means in the minds of our colleagues?

I personally believe that intelligent research can generate more questions than it answers, and as you point out, the nature of both questions and comments raised our Forums does seem to have become of two major types in recent times:-

show and tell & classification

If useful research is being done, I would expect it to generate some debate, but I very seldom see debate at any level here.

Do we already know everything, or are we too occupied with other things to give the necessary time to research?

[Shakethetrees]

Collecting without research is like going to a banquet without eating!

True, it takes a certain knack to ferret out and find what it is we seek, but at this point it's just accumulation.

The pursuit of knowledge raises this to a higher level. When a body of knowledge is built up over time true scholarship is the result.

Our recently deceased friend Michael was a perfect example. He observed objects in public and private collections, found items one at a time and slowly built his own collection based on what he learned over the years, all the while doing further research. The gathered body of knowledge he posessed is, to anybody who followed his efforts, astounding, and represents true scholarship.

While there are a lot of highly intelligent and passionate members of this forum, none have come close (IMHO) to his depth of understanding.

He can never be replaced.

[Rick]

Gentlemen,
I think we have been down this particular road before .
There is in fact a vast amount of knowledge stored here (and in other forums) free for the seeking .
In this time in which we live our interests are, in many circles, nay, as viewed by the vast majority, deemed politically incorrect, wrong somehow .
Let us not by denigrating 'show and tell' discourage any future Matchlocks from participation .
One never knows where or when a fire may be lit by a simple inquiry .

[David]

You ask some very valid questions here, both Jens and Alan. How do we define the term "research". I generally attempt to find out what i can about any keris i collect, but i'm not sure it is fair to call it research per se, certainly not by any academic standard. I am fairly limited is my resources for one. I can attempt to draw knowledge from the many books i own on the subject (and related subjects of Indonesian cultures) and quite frankly depend on the "kindness of strangers" that i might feel are wiser or better informed on the subject than i to broaden my understanding. But if by "research", Jens, you mean real field research i am afraid i do not have the time, money or resources to fly to Indonesia and really study the keris in the manner that a full accounting of the subject deserves. To truly research keris as i believe it should be done i should probably learn the Javanese language for one and make regular trips to the region to get closer to the source of my study. Yes, i do ask others both on the forum and outside of it about keris, others who i have come to trust for their much greater knowledge of the subject and hopefully i learn and retain what i am told and possibly even use that gained knowledge to formulate my own theories and ideas from time to time. But i am afraid that it is not really within my means to write a dissertation on the subject that would be worthy of sharing with my fellow collectors on this forum and i don't really feel that it is the responsibility of members here to produce research of that type for the benefit of the forums as a whole. Of course, if you do, it would certainly be nice if you share it. I do what i can and may argue a question based more upon a developed sense of logic about the subject than any hard dug research. I am more than sure that we don't know nearly as much as we should about these weapons. I have plenty of questions and not nearly enough answers. But i do believe that asking the right questions can be almost as valuable as providing the right answers sometimes. So perhaps it might be fair to say that i study keris more that i actually research them.
I am not convinced that my collection of keris could ever be a "miscellaneous pile of pointy things". These weapons hold far too much beauty and excellence of craft to ever be deemed as such. They have "personalities" which elevate them beyond the status of mere objects for me. However, my appreciation of them certainly increases exponentially with each bit of new information i gain about them.

[Jim McDougall]

Jens, a very well posed question, and I think interesting to see the wide diversity here, not only in fields of study, but in the degree of study and research into the arms and armour we all collect, study and cherish.

When I first began in these forums, one of my foremost goals was to learn, and to do that by talking with others who were often more experienced and who had collected many more weapons than I. For many years here, there was a great deal of camaraderie, and genuine sharing of information and discussion as new examples were acquired by members. Each new item brought often profound observations by those participating, and considerable advances were made in our knowledge of many weapon forms.

Among our membership and these pages, many weapon forms long either misidentified or relatively unknown became at last distinctively classified and our collective knowledge became a growing and valuable resource.

It does seem that in recent years, many changes have become apparent in the demeanor of participants in many threads with unfortunate results. Too often differences in opinion or personal matters have caused a great deal of friction and conflict. This has often diminished the potential of threads which might have offered the discussion needed to constructively analyze examples, data and observations.

The numbers seen in a thread as far as the number of posts versus the number of views or hits is staggering. Clearly many people are viewing and find the material useful, but obviously most simply watch the dialogue of participants without offering what could be key to advancing the discussion.

Often someone simply posts an item, without offering any information about it, asking participants here to completely pour information into their query, and in many cases, these slide away without even a thank you, let alone any reciprocal dialogue.
On one hand, it is often useful that we have an opportunity to discuss and learn from an item. On the other, it is annoying that the initiator of the query has not bothered to even seek the slightest information on the item in many cases.

The 'show and tell' texture of things, while entertaining, by the same token is disappointing, at least in my opinion. It is of course wonderful to show a new acquisition and have a host of people green with envy, but it hardly offers much to those who deeply wish to learn more on that form or weapon itself.
Naturally, the often heard refrain is, I don't know anything about those, so I couldn't really add anything. If one is unfamiliar with something, why not just look into a reference (nowadays online sources are incredible) and get an overview, then ask a tangible question?
There are so many weapons discussed in our pages, it is impossible to know everything (obviously), but it is incredibly exciting to seek more on the topic, jot some notes, and read the posts and interaction.

I have always believed, there are no 'experts', just a wide scope of students, and learning together in their shared interests.

I think Rick said it best........who knows when a fire my be lit by a simple inquiry. We've had lots of pretty good blazes here!! where intense and exciting discussion focused on sharing and learning, and anyone who sees our archives will know how much was accomplished here by many who have come and gone, and many still here. Our discussions and studies are constantly tapped by others seeking information to learn on arms in online searches.

I cannot go without noting our own Michael, Matchlock, researcher and scholar extraordinaire, who spent his life in the study of medieval and renaissance arms. ....and who we lost just days ago.
Now THERE was a researcher!
His quintessence in that, and his passion for learning and sharing will stand always as an inspiration .

I cannot think of a better note with which to close,

Jim

[Ian]

As someone who spent 40+ years of my professional life engaged in "academic research," I believe that research is simply the methods by which we acquire new knowledge. The final goal is to arrive at a better understanding of the issue. One line of scientific research requires that we propose an hypothesis and then test it to determine whether or not it is likely to be false (and therefore possibly true)--this is the hypothetico-deductive form of reasoning that is de rigeur for the physical, chemical and biological sciences. A second approach is empirical research, which emphasizes collecting as much data as possible on a subject and then trying to make sense of it by looking for associations and grouping of various pieces of information. Empiricism tends to be decried by "true scientists" because it relies on inductive reasoning.

Unfortunately, for so many of us, we are not in a position (not enough time, money, or training) to undertake rigorous field investigations of our hobby. One person who comes to mind who has undertaken solid scholarly research efforts is Robert Elgood, but folks like him are few in our field.

I would suggest that cataloging the various items in our collections is not really research. It makes us somewhat better informed but it seldom enlightens the field. We are not making new discoveries, but rather rediscovering what others have already reported. That is helpful and enlightening for us, and maybe for others, but I would not call it research.

In nearly 50 years of collecting edged weapons, I doubt that I have made more than a handful of astute original observations about them. Everything else I know has been the result of reading or listening to people who have more experience than I do. I would say that listening carefully to knowledgeable individuals within and outside the cultures that make the weapons of my interest has been the most important source of information for me. Some of my scientific colleagues say that this is unsubstantiated hearsay, others say it is good ethnographic research. Several of my best friends are anthropologists, and they understand the difficulties in doing solid research on weapons.

I don't think it is a bad thing that much of what we discuss here is "show and tell." If that's what the active membership wants, then that's what it gets. Also, trying to find out the what, where, when and how of the weapons we collect is only natural for the avid collector. The overall expertise here helps provide those answers.

However, I do agree with Alan when he says that the Forum has lost a little of its solidly based discussions, such as those on wootz steel (to name one example), that were present a decade or so ago. One solution may be for some of our very experienced members to write more articles that Lee can publish on these pages.

If you look at the statistics of who is using the forum (on the home page of this site), you will see that, of those logged on at any one time, registered members account for only about 10% of those looking at these pages--the substantial majority are visitors. Perhaps some of those who are not members could help make our discussions more factual by becoming members and participating actively. I can think of several folks whose opinions would be very helpful in our discussions, but they choose not to do so.

Ultimately, the output of this Forum depends on the input of its participants.

Ian.

[kahnjar1]

As a collector currently of (mainly) Islamic arms.....(My collecting has been thru many changes over the years)......I have found this Forum a mine of information which is not generally available from other collectors in the region where I live. Added to that is a small but useful library of related books.
My research is certainly more basic than some, but I do like to find out as much information as possible about any item I have in my collection.
Sometimes a post querying an item meets with silence even though the post has been viewed many times. I am not entirely sure why this is.....lack of interest?......not sure about that, otherwise why would one bother to view? Perhaps the viewer does not think that the information he has is valuable.
I believe that in this game, ALL information is valuable, as it raises discussion, and that is how results are achieved IMHO.
Also I am more than well aware that there are no experts out there. We are all still learning, and need to analyse the information coming our way, to sort out fact from fiction. Don't be afraid to publish your thoughts please.

A word to the young and up coming collectors.....PLEASE, PLEASE glean all the information that you can now, as many of those who post here, myself included, are probably getting on in years, and unless the information is passed on now, it will be gone for ever. If you have questions, ask them now.
Stu

[A. G. Maisey]

"show & tell" is a catchy little phrase that many, if not most, people couple with junior school. This is probably an accurate alignment of ideas, but my use of it in my earlier post does not imply any denigration at any level.

If S&T is what people want to do and want to see, it has its own value.

I've spent in excess of 60 years in keris study, both field work and looking at the work of other people. It would be reasonable to assume I know a little bit about keris, and yes, I do, but really only Javanese keris, and Balinese keris in so far as they impact on Javanese keris. The stream of "show & tell' items that I meet with in this forum assist my knowledge of keris types of which I have only slight knowledge.

So:- nothing wrong with S&T.

But it would be really nice if we could sometimes see a few more perceptive questions, or well stated disagreements.

As David has written:- "--- asking the right questions can be almost as valuable as providing the right answers---"

The foundations of my profession rest upon the construction of questions that will provide the "right answers". I'm an auditor. Constructing the right question can be incredibly difficult. I've struggled frequently in trying to get a question just exactly right. Questions are not easy, they can be extraordinarily difficult to frame. But it would be nice to see a few piercing questions in our Forums, from time to time.

Some months ago I published an article that looked at areas of Javanese keris knowledge that had never been previously touched upon. I expected that it would generate a storm of disagreement and protest. It has now been read by a good cross section of keris conscious people. I have yet to hear anything except nice, friendly compliments. It is a trimmed down version of my original article, and because of this, I , myself, can find holes in it. But it seems nobody else can. To me, this is disappointing.

Thus, when Ian suggests that we write articles so that those articles can generate discussion, I am not really convinced that too many people are prepared to read, think, and question. I feel that most people read for entertainment only.

[carlos]

Sometimes the research is very difficult by the language. The most information in books and in web is in english. My level of english is low. To me is more easy read than write.
I try to contribute to forum sharing my pieces and sometimes I tried to answer some post.
I,m very happy to be a forum member. The forum and some books are my main research.
Thanks
Carlos