EARLY 17TH CENTURY BROADSWORD for discussion

NeilUK · 10th July 2015, 12:11 AM

I notice that AVILLEM is on a separate line from Peter Bere, so could it be the name of a town in Germany? And although ALAMANIA is Latinised the name Peter is not! It would be PETRUS. A strange mixture, but a fine sword.
Neil

Cerjak · 10th July 2015, 06:09 PM

HI Marcus ,Fernando and Neil
Many thanks for your comments
This sword was in the Morton and Angela Stern Collection (New York) and had been sold with the following description : AN ITALIAN BROADSWORD, EARLY 17TH CENTURY. I didn’t find any more information about this collection . A sword with related blade and hilt, formerly in the Kienbusch Collection, and now in the Philadelphia Museum of Art, is illustrated Boccia and Coelho 1975, no. 545 (.scan courtesy of Fernando )
Hoping to learn more about 'Peter Bere Avillem”
Best
Cerjak

CSinTX · 11th July 2015, 03:46 AM

Very interesting sword. At first, I thought the pommel might not belong but after seeing the other example from Fernando, it would appear that it does belong.

There is a small notch on your blade just in front of the scalloped ricasso. I thought it might be a damage mark from your blade possibly originating on another guard but now I see the other example has similar small notches. Does anyone know the purpose of these? Speculating maybe notches for bindings to keep a frog in place?

Nice piece and it looks like you got it at an attractive price. Congrats!

ulfberth · 11th July 2015, 09:21 AM

Congratulations on this impressive sword Cerjak !
To me the pommel belongs to the sword, it is faceted just as the guard is.
kind regards

Ulfberth

fernando · 11th July 2015, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilUK

I notice that AVILLEM is on a separate line from Peter Bere, so could it be the name of a town in Germany? ...

It could; but if you patiently browse the net, you will see that such word was originaly a person's name, mainly used in the Nederlands, during this sword's period, as attributed to a Prince of Orange ... and not only:

.

Marcus den toom · 11th July 2015, 02:16 PM

Does the name read Avillem Bere or rather A Villem Rere?
The last would translate from Latin into "The white villa"

So very loosely it can be read as, "Peter at the white Villa, made in Germany"
Peter beeing either the name of the owner/the maker or the name for this sword?

Cerjak · 12th July 2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

It could; but if you patiently browse the net, you will see that such word was originaly a person's name, mainly used in the Nederlands, during this sword's period, as attributed to a Prince of Orange ... and not only:

.

Thank you fernando it seems plausible to me and I 'll look in that direction.
best

Jean-Luc

cornelistromp · 11th January 2016, 09:14 AM

Jean-Luc,

thanks for the link!
No unfortunately there is no link to Willem van Oranje or to my country.

although on the blade is written that it is made in Germany, I am assuming that the sword is of Italian Origen.

also the blade. despite the references to Germany:
ALAMANIA ME FECIT
PETER BERE(Behre) is a German name, as well as the 'orb and cross' mark above the fuller, used by the bladesmiths of Solingen in Germany.
AVILLEM, I read as A VILLE M, in the town M.
AVILLEM ALAMANIA MEFECIT= in the town M Germany Iam made.

this was done more often, blades from Germany had a good reputation because they were of high quality, a link to Germany was in Spain and Italy seen as a quality indication, vice versa happened also.

This type of sword is specific "Italian" as detailed in Armi Bianche Italiane.
characterized by the wide fullered blade and cutout for the index finger
popular in Italy at the end of the 16th century.

(Almost) all of the marks in these sword blades can be traced back to Italian workshops.
attached pipctures of an Italian Storta I had in my collection, from the Carl Beck collection Sursee Switserland, with an almost indentical pommel as the sword under discussion and blade similarities.

best,
Jasper

Cerjak · 11th January 2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Jean-Luc,

thanks for the link!
No unfortunately there is no link to Willem van Oranje or to my country.

although on the blade is written that it is made in Germany, I am assuming that the sword is of Italian Origen.

also the blade. despite the references to Germany:
ALAMANIA ME FECIT
PETER BERE(Behre) is a German name, as well as the 'orb and cross' mark above the fuller, used by the bladesmiths of Solingen in Germany.
AVILLEM, I read as A VILLE M, in the town M.
AVILLEM ALAMANIA MEFECIT= in the town M Germany Iam made.

this was done more often, blades from Germany had a good reputation because they were of high quality, a link to Germany was in Spain and Italy seen as a quality indication, vice versa happened also.

This type of sword is specific "Italian" as detailed in Armi Bianche Italiane.
characterized by the wide fullered blade and cutout for the index finger
popular in Italy at the end of the 16th century.

(Almost) all of the marks in these sword blades can be traced back to Italian workshops.
attached pipctures of an Italian Storta I had in my collection, from the Carl Beck collection Sursee Switserland, with an almost indentical pommel as the sword under discussion and blade similarities.

best,
Jasper

Hi Jasper,
Thank you for the pictures , beautiful storta ,also the globular pommel is very similar.
Best

Jean-Luc

10th July 2015, 06:09 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	HI Marcus ,Fernando and Neil Many thanks for your comments This sword was in the Morton and Angela Stern Collection (New York) and had been sold with the following description : AN ITALIAN BROADSWORD, EARLY 17TH CENTURY. I didn’t find any more information about this collection . A sword with related blade and hilt, formerly in the Kienbusch Collection, and now in the Philadelphia Museum of Art, is illustrated Boccia and Coelho 1975, no. 545 (.scan courtesy of Fernando ) Hoping to learn more about 'Peter Bere Avillem” Best Cerjak Attached Images

11th January 2016, 09:14 AM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Jean-Luc, thanks for the link! No unfortunately there is no link to Willem van Oranje or to my country. although on the blade is written that it is made in Germany, I am assuming that the sword is of Italian Origen. also the blade. despite the references to Germany: ALAMANIA ME FECIT PETER BERE(Behre) is a German name, as well as the 'orb and cross' mark above the fuller, used by the bladesmiths of Solingen in Germany. AVILLEM, I read as A VILLE M, in the town M. AVILLEM ALAMANIA MEFECIT= in the town M Germany Iam made. this was done more often, blades from Germany had a good reputation because they were of high quality, a link to Germany was in Spain and Italy seen as a quality indication, vice versa happened also. This type of sword is specific "Italian" as detailed in Armi Bianche Italiane. characterized by the wide fullered blade and cutout for the index finger popular in Italy at the end of the 16th century. (Almost) all of the marks in these sword blades can be traced back to Italian workshops. attached pipctures of an Italian Storta I had in my collection, from the Carl Beck collection Sursee Switserland, with an almost indentical pommel as the sword under discussion and blade similarities. best, Jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 11th January 2016 at 09:40 AM.

10th July 2015, 12:11 AM	#1
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 126	I notice that AVILLEM is on a separate line from Peter Bere, so could it be the name of a town in Germany? And although ALAMANIA is Latinised the name Peter is not! It would be PETRUS. A strange mixture, but a fine sword. Neil

11th July 2015, 03:46 AM	#3
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Very interesting sword. At first, I thought the pommel might not belong but after seeing the other example from Fernando, it would appear that it does belong. There is a small notch on your blade just in front of the scalloped ricasso. I thought it might be a damage mark from your blade possibly originating on another guard but now I see the other example has similar small notches. Does anyone know the purpose of these? Speculating maybe notches for bindings to keep a frog in place? Nice piece and it looks like you got it at an attractive price. Congrats!

11th July 2015, 09:21 AM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Congratulations on this impressive sword Cerjak ! To me the pommel belongs to the sword, it is faceted just as the guard is. kind regards Ulfberth

11th July 2015, 02:16 PM	#6
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	Does the name read Avillem Bere or rather A Villem Rere? The last would translate from Latin into "The white villa" So very loosely it can be read as, "Peter at the white Villa, made in Germany" Peter beeing either the name of the owner/the maker or the name for this sword?