Keris Coteng

maxbliss888 · 17th June 2015, 03:20 PM

Day light photo

maxbliss888 · 18th June 2015, 08:55 AM

Has any one seen this Coteng wooden handle? It looks like a Tajong but it's a Coteng

Sajen · 18th June 2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Has any one seen this Coteng wooden handle? It looks like a Tajong but it's a Coteng

Very nice Coteng handle, maybe a transition piece.

Regards,
Detlef

maxbliss888 · 18th June 2015, 05:08 PM

A fellow collector's Coteng

kai · 18th June 2015, 08:51 PM

Hello Max,

Quote:

Has any one seen this Coteng wooden handle? It looks like a Tajong but it's a Coteng

To me this looks like a nice, probably early hulu Tajong: while really small, it does have a ridge below its chin which clearly represents a beard despite being smaller than usual (as compared with typical hulu Tajong).

AFAIK, hulu Coteng never have a beard and the typical flat head. The hilt you show has a considerably heavier head (again like typical hulu Tajong).

What is the reasoning of your local contacts? (Assuming they favor the classification of this hilt as hulu Coteng?)

Regards,
Kai

maxbliss888 · 19th June 2015, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Max,

To me this looks like a nice, probably early hulu Tajong: while really small, it does have a ridge below its chin which clearly represents a beard despite being smaller than usual (as compared with typical hulu Tajong).

AFAIK, hulu Coteng never have a beard and the typical flat head. The hilt you show has a considerably heavier head (again like typical hulu Tajong).

What is the reasoning of your local contacts? (Assuming they favor the classification of this hilt as hulu Coteng?)

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for your input.

The classification between Tajong and Coteng is often blurred here in this instance, which is why I thought it will be good to share with fellow collectors here. I have thought that since Thailand is the place for Tajong and Coteng, there will be opportunities to see more of these, but it Its not the case...

Hope you all enjoy the photos...

maxbliss888 · 19th June 2015, 04:26 AM

A few Coteng to share...

BluErf · 28th June 2015, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Has any one seen this Coteng wooden handle? It looks like a Tajong but it's a Coteng

This would normally be classified as a tajong. The form is closer to a mid-late period tajong.

It has a boxier form, and a rudimentary beard, from the looks of the photo.

A "kampung"" quality hilt, which is still nice, but not exactly an archetype form to do deep analysis on.

maxbliss888 · 28th June 2015, 10:56 AM

A friend's Coteng

maxbliss888 · 28th June 2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

This would normally be classified as a tajong. The form is closer to a mid-late period tajong.

It has a boxier form, and a rudimentary beard, from the looks of the photo.

A "kampung"" quality hilt, which is still nice, but not exactly an archetype form to do deep analysis on.

Thanks..

First time I heard the term Kampung quality hilt... : ı thought all Keris are made in some kampong somewhere during the ancient days...

BluErf · 28th June 2015, 04:47 PM

I meant good enough to wear around in the kampung, but not fine enough for the higher social strata. Sorry, this sounds politically incorrect, but that's the way art is. The centre of wealth and political power breeds high excellence in artistic expression which form the pinnacles of art that ordinary folks copy, emulate and aspire to own/consume. Like all facsimiles, definition is lost in the process.

maxbliss888 · 29th June 2015, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I meant good enough to wear around in the kampung, but not fine enough for the higher social strata. Sorry, this sounds politically incorrect, but that's the way art is. The centre of wealth and political power breeds high excellence in artistic expression which form the pinnacles of art that ordinary folks copy, emulate and aspire to own/consume. Like all facsimiles, definition is lost in the process.

If this is the case, this old one will not make it to higher social strata as well...

My guess is that it depends on which angle you prefer to see it. Keris as a weapon or Keris as a status symbol...

BluErf · 29th June 2015, 09:20 AM

Yes, indeed.

To be even more provocative, some kerises are not good enough for the social higher strata, and at the same time, they make poor weapons too. So what do we make of these kerises?

"Old" not equals "good" or "bad"
"New" not equals "bad" or "good"
Likewise for "simple" and "complex"

But I think we have digressed a bit frm the original point I wanted to make, but I suspect was not conveyed adequately - that a "kampung" quality hilt does not adhere very strictly to archetypal forms. You get all sorts of variations and unusual features. From my experience, it is usually a futile exercise trying to classify these examples definitively. Sometimes, they are just amalgamations of influences and even the whims and fancies of the maker.

So this is to be read in relation to your question/statement - this looks like a tajong, but is actually a coteng.

The first rule of collecting is to collect what you like. Happy learning about the keris, and then collecting it!

17th June 2015, 03:20 PM	#1
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Blade Day light photo Attached Images

18th June 2015, 08:55 AM	#2
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Coteng with older wooden handle Has any one seen this Coteng wooden handle? It looks like a Tajong but it's a Coteng Attached Images Last edited by maxbliss888; 18th June 2015 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Add details

18th June 2015, 05:08 PM	#4
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Coteng wooden A fellow collector's Coteng Attached Images

19th June 2015, 04:26 AM	#7
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Coteng A few Coteng to share... Attached Images

28th June 2015, 10:56 AM	#9
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Coteng A friend's Coteng Attached Images

28th June 2015, 04:47 PM	#11
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I meant good enough to wear around in the kampung, but not fine enough for the higher social strata. Sorry, this sounds politically incorrect, but that's the way art is. The centre of wealth and political power breeds high excellence in artistic expression which form the pinnacles of art that ordinary folks copy, emulate and aspire to own/consume. Like all facsimiles, definition is lost in the process. Attached Images

29th June 2015, 09:20 AM	#13
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Yes, indeed. To be even more provocative, some kerises are not good enough for the social higher strata, and at the same time, they make poor weapons too. So what do we make of these kerises? "Old" not equals "good" or "bad" "New" not equals "bad" or "good" Likewise for "simple" and "complex" But I think we have digressed a bit frm the original point I wanted to make, but I suspect was not conveyed adequately - that a "kampung" quality hilt does not adhere very strictly to archetypal forms. You get all sorts of variations and unusual features. From my experience, it is usually a futile exercise trying to classify these examples definitively. Sometimes, they are just amalgamations of influences and even the whims and fancies of the maker. So this is to be read in relation to your question/statement - this looks like a tajong, but is actually a coteng. The first rule of collecting is to collect what you like. Happy learning about the keris, and then collecting it!