Flanged Mace for comment

cornelistromp · 13th June 2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello Jasper,

I am very sorry to correct you, but the average weight of a european flanged mace is around 1.5 kg and more.
The mace must be so heavy, because the mace is originally intended for penetrate or at least pressing dents in a plate armour. The thickness of a tempered european plate armour is between 1.5 an 2 mm.

A battlefield mace with a weight of less than 1.2 kg would be too lightweight against plate armour.

Best regards Roland

Hi Roland,

you may correct me, but it must of course be supported in order to convince me.

1.5 kg average and more you have mentioned is not correct,
where did you find this digit?

Clive Thomas has written a wonderful article on maces in park lane arms and armor fair cataloque of 2014. I've also spoken to Clive about the weights of the different maces, because what he found was much lighter then we both expected.

Quote Clive page 21 "In General it could be said that the solid shafted examples are about 52.5 cm in avarage overall length and weigh around 1,050kg, whilst the tubular types are approximately 50cm and 560g, respectively" unquote

the type under discussion is oakeshott M2 and/or Clive Thomas B2
this type was usually larger around 60cm+ and heavier then the earlier ones
but will average not go over the maximum weight found of 1.2-1.3 KG
some examples from the article.

best,

fernando · 13th June 2015, 04:03 PM

I know nothing of these things but ...

Don't in any case, besides the number of flanges, the length of the shaft and or that of the entire mace have great influence in the weight variation ?

A few examples in the Wallace collection read:

A982 - seven flanges - total length 63.5 cms. - weight 1.470 Kg.
A983 - seven flanges - total length 60.4 cms. - weight 1.260 Kg.
A984 - seven flanges - total length 63.5 cms. - weight 1.540 Kg.
A985 - eigth flanges - haft length 45 cms. - weight 1.860 Kg.

.

cornelistromp · 13th June 2015, 06:33 PM

yes like i mentioned in post #12 this type M2 was usually larger around 60cm+ and heavier then the earlier ones.

Wallace A985 is 0.86kg, not 1.86kg, the heaviest mace in Wallace is A979 with 1.67 KG.

best,

fernando · 13th June 2015, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Wallace A945 is 0.86kg, not 1.86kg,

You mean A985. In my 1962 book version is 1.86Kg, (4:11/2).

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

the heaviest mace in Wallace is A979 with 1.67 KG

Yes ... eight flanges.

cornelistromp · 14th June 2015, 06:51 AM

hereby 4 maces from the William Burrell Collection, the middle two, the larger ones are of the same type as het mace in # 1, M2B. around 1550
the outer smaller ones are earlier around 1500 of type M1A.

the second mace, from left to right, is 63cm long, flanges are 9.9cm, weight is 1,274kg.

best,
Jasper

Nakampfmesser76 · 21st January 2019, 01:43 PM

It was offered to me, but i'm not sure if original or not...

fernando · 21st January 2019, 05:16 PM

Diego, how can anyone help if you don't post any pictures, as you were already reminded ?

13th June 2015, 04:03 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I know nothing of these things but ... Don't in any case, besides the number of flanges, the length of the shaft and or that of the entire mace have great influence in the weight variation ? A few examples in the Wallace collection read: A982 - seven flanges - total length 63.5 cms. - weight 1.470 Kg. A983 - seven flanges - total length 60.4 cms. - weight 1.260 Kg. A984 - seven flanges - total length 63.5 cms. - weight 1.540 Kg. A985 - eigth flanges - haft length 45 cms. - weight 1.860 Kg. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 13th June 2015 at 04:18 PM.

13th June 2015, 06:33 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	yes like i mentioned in post #12 this type M2 was usually larger around 60cm+ and heavier then the earlier ones. Wallace A985 is 0.86kg, not 1.86kg, the heaviest mace in Wallace is A979 with 1.67 KG. best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 14th June 2015 at 06:26 PM.

14th June 2015, 06:51 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	hereby 4 maces from the William Burrell Collection, the middle two, the larger ones are of the same type as het mace in # 1, M2B. around 1550 the outer smaller ones are earlier around 1500 of type M1A. the second mace, from left to right, is 63cm long, flanges are 9.9cm, weight is 1,274kg. best, Jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 14th June 2015 at 06:22 PM.

21st January 2019, 01:43 PM	#6
Nakampfmesser76 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 7	original or not? It was offered to me, but i'm not sure if original or not...

21st January 2019, 05:16 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Diego, how can anyone help if you don't post any pictures, as you were already reminded ?