Bichoq? Or something else

ariel · 6th June 2015, 12:02 PM

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Sancar · 6th June 2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Exactly; and since Baburid Mughals were also ethnic Turks, it is propable that pichangetti also have some Turkic origin in its etimology.

ariel · 6th June 2015, 08:19 PM

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Sancar · 7th June 2015, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Bıçak means "knife" in Turkish language, so it doesn't have to be a certain blade form connection. In the case of "pichangatti", it might only be the word that travelled. There are many such terms in Indian languages that migrated from Turkish and Persian languages.

In the case of Özbek "pichok", there is no confusion. It is the exact same word, just different pronounciation.

ariel · 7th June 2015, 11:28 PM

Fully agree with the latter.
As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.

Andreas · 8th June 2015, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Fully agree with the latter.
As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.

Pichangatti apparently means "hand knife" (Egerton). As the Tamil Word for knife is katti, the word pichangatti doesn't seem related to bıçak.
Andreas

ariel · 8th June 2015, 12:44 PM

Phonetic similarity can play dirty games .
I know a fellow who has a theory that Hebrew was the mother-tongue of Eastern European Slavs.
He thinks that Russian city Orel is in reality Or -el, God's light; another Russian city, Kostroma, is Hebrew Kos Truma: Chalice of Charity.
And the crowning argument: the capital of Poland, Warszawa is in reality a mispronounced Beer Sheva, the capital of Negev region in Israel.

And there is no way shaking his private opinion:-)

6th June 2015, 12:02 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan. But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

6th June 2015, 08:19 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin. The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

7th June 2015, 11:28 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fully agree with the latter. As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.

8th June 2015, 12:44 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Phonetic similarity can play dirty games . I know a fellow who has a theory that Hebrew was the mother-tongue of Eastern European Slavs. He thinks that Russian city Orel is in reality Or -el, God's light; another Russian city, Kostroma, is Hebrew Kos Truma: Chalice of Charity. And the crowning argument: the capital of Poland, Warszawa is in reality a mispronounced Beer Sheva, the capital of Negev region in Israel. And there is no way shaking his private opinion:-)