My gunong collection and some thoughts

Robert · 5th June 2015, 12:42 AM

Hello Detlef,
I would not worry too much about this being a small piece made for tourist as most of the ones of this style I've seen are from 10/12 inches in length. As Jose has pointed out the hilt having the sudden bend and not a slow or flowing curve points to its being of later construction and I would agree with his estimate of age placing this most likely in the 1940's. I'm not sure the pointed luks being present on a gunong is an accurate way of dating them any longer as there is now some evidence that pointed luks on kris have been in use long before previously thought. That being said I would not think it would be too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that pointed luks might not also have been used on gunong blades from the same time period. Any way it goes I like this piece and am looking forward to its arrival.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 12th June 2015, 09:05 PM

First, thank you Robert for you thoughts about the gunong, second for the good pictures I've received from you.

Here a few of this pictures. Robert and I am very unsure about the handle material, it's almost looks to my eyes like walrus ivory but I am very, very unsure. Any thoughts?

Iain · 12th June 2015, 10:43 PM

My entirely uneducated opinion also says walrus, or at least marine ivory.

Ian · 12th June 2015, 10:56 PM

Sajen:

In the close up of the handle the little black dots visible, especially towards the end of the hilt, look like Haversian canals in cross section. This suggests that the handle is made from bone rather than a form of ivory.

Walrus ivory is extremely rare in the Philippines and would, I think, be restricted to high end, expensive weapons. I have not seen a convincing example of walrus ivory on a moro weapon. However, I have seen what was said to be dugong ivory on the pommel of a datu quality kris.

Ian.

David · 13th June 2015, 04:37 AM

I'm with Ian. This looks like bone to me.

Sajen · 13th June 2015, 10:58 AM

Thank you all for comment!

You could be correct that it is bone. It was just a thought since the ones I have seen with bone pommels has had a top cap to cover the inner porosity.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 13th June 2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

It was just a thought since the ones I have seen with bone pommels has had a top cap to cover the inner porosity.

That's a good point Detlef. I hadn't considered that. Still, it does not look like any ivory i have ever seen and the porousness and black dots on the material does look a lot like bone.

Battara · 13th June 2015, 06:00 PM

Take it from a bone head, this is bone.

12th June 2015, 09:05 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,283	First, thank you Robert for you thoughts about the gunong, second for the good pictures I've received from you. Here a few of this pictures. Robert and I am very unsure about the handle material, it's almost looks to my eyes like walrus ivory but I am very, very unsure. Any thoughts? Attached Images

5th June 2015, 12:42 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, I would not worry too much about this being a small piece made for tourist as most of the ones of this style I've seen are from 10/12 inches in length. As Jose has pointed out the hilt having the sudden bend and not a slow or flowing curve points to its being of later construction and I would agree with his estimate of age placing this most likely in the 1940's. I'm not sure the pointed luks being present on a gunong is an accurate way of dating them any longer as there is now some evidence that pointed luks on kris have been in use long before previously thought. That being said I would not think it would be too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that pointed luks might not also have been used on gunong blades from the same time period. Any way it goes I like this piece and am looking forward to its arrival. Best, Robert

12th June 2015, 10:43 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	My entirely uneducated opinion also says walrus, or at least marine ivory.

12th June 2015, 10:56 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,460	Sajen: In the close up of the handle the little black dots visible, especially towards the end of the hilt, look like Haversian canals in cross section. This suggests that the handle is made from bone rather than a form of ivory. Walrus ivory is extremely rare in the Philippines and would, I think, be restricted to high end, expensive weapons. I have not seen a convincing example of walrus ivory on a moro weapon. However, I have seen what was said to be dugong ivory on the pommel of a datu quality kris. Ian.

13th June 2015, 04:37 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,231	I'm with Ian. This looks like bone to me.

13th June 2015, 10:58 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,283	Thank you all for comment! You could be correct that it is bone. It was just a thought since the ones I have seen with bone pommels has had a top cap to cover the inner porosity. Regards, Detlef

13th June 2015, 06:00 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,315	Take it from a bone head, this is bone.