Another strange, non-textbook, parang

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 06:35 PM

Here is another strange one. I did show it on the old forum and Tom very kindly suggested that the scabbard had some Morro aspects. As you can see it is from around ww2 or latter. I would imagine it is probably from Borneo as the UK did not get that involved with the PI but things and people move around, N Borneo and PI only seperated by islands in the Sulu sea. Tim

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 07:31 PM

The decoration at the ends of both Michaels and my knife seem to share the same form. The decoration on my prang being a little more stylised. Tim

zelbone · 17th December 2005, 07:38 PM

Looks more like a Janap to me.

VVV · 17th December 2005, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the feedback!
Moro weapons are rare here in North Europe so the only Bangkungs I have seen are those in Cato's book with another kind of blade.
But I always wanted a Bangkung in my collection so...
What puzzles me a bit is the way the belt rope is attached to the scabbard.
I haven't seen that with f.i. Barongs?
It reminds me more of a Pakayun scabbard or other parangs I have seen in NW Borneo?

Nice parang Tim.
Interesting that the wood on your handle is also striped like the wood on my scabbard.

Zelbone, what's a Janap (except that it looks like my and Tim's blade)?

Michael

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 08:59 PM

How right you are, now you point it out, the wood is the same. I have another knife with a handle of the same wood, which I also suspect is from Borneo. I did show it many years ago but the response was a little poor. I think there are too many similarities in these knives, not to have come from the same place. Tim

VVV · 17th December 2005, 09:04 PM

Tim,

Could you please post a picture of the other knife again?

Here is a picture of my Borneo Sadop that also has striped wood.

Michael

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 09:25 PM

This knife is quite different from the parangs but again we see this distinctive wood. We need a botanist, especially when looking at island flora. This knife, I have cleaned but not heavily, I suspect was brought back to the UK after the Malay emergency

and brief war with Indonesia. Tim

kai · 17th December 2005, 11:17 PM

I can see a vague similarity with a barong hilt but I have severe problems to believe that a traditional moro craftsman would butcher the kakatua pommel design in such a way. In my eyes this hilt could be based on the barong kakatua but I feel this was done by an outsider who didn't grasp (or didn't cared about) the underlying symbolism and went off in another direction. Areas close to Tausug territory (especially N or E Borneo) might be likely places for its origin IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

Tim Simmons · 18th December 2005, 08:42 AM

I am pretty sure the parang that I post is from N Borneo and made by an outsider could just be cultural diffusion. I do not know about Michael's unless you include that one too. It would seem that the striped wood is widespread. Tim

VVV · 18th December 2005, 09:53 AM

Good morning Tim,

I think your first parang could be from Sabah.
When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours.
I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours.
It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK.
Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this?

Michael

John · 18th December 2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Good morning Tim,

I think your first parang could be from Sabah.
When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours.
I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours.
It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK.
Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this?

Michael

Michael,

I think the pictures from the following site may bring back some memories of the Kota Belud Tamu (Sunday market). Perhaps Tim could compare his parangs with some of those in my pictures... There seem to be resemblances but the curious thing is that the hilts wood on Tim's pieces appears to look like kemuning (or a similar grained wood) have not been something I've seen in recent times (within the limits of my exposure). So I can't be certain whether his are from Sabah...

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

VVV · 18th December 2005, 11:45 AM

Thanks John,

Great pics!
Maybe our parangs are older versions of those blades but from the same area? But our scabbards have rattan bindings instead of glue as is used nowadays.
Have you seen older blades from Sabah?
What disappointed me a bit, as a collector, when visiting the market is that all the blades were newly made.
Is there any museum in KK, Sandakan or elsewhere in Sabah where they have old blades?

Michael

VVV · 18th December 2005, 11:57 AM

John and other forumites,

Here is another, obviously Borneo, blade that I haven't found out from where it is. It's much smaller than the other.
This one I picked up in Holland so I didn't think of it as from Sabah.
But looking at John's pictures from the market I recognised some of the features.
What do you think?

Michael

Tim Simmons · 18th December 2005, 12:04 PM

Great pictures and very helpful, the striped wood does not seem to feature in the parangs of today. Could that type of timber now be rare? It is a most beautiful wood that might have added value to otherwise fairly ordinary knives. Seeing all these new ones makes my one a lot better than I previously thought. The binding on mine is nylon fishing line. Thanks for the interesting help. Tim

John · 18th December 2005, 12:20 PM

Michael,

Frankly, Sabah is NOT quite a place to find old blades apart from the odd ones here and there eg Moro kris, pakayun. Not quite a place for a collector to pick up older edged weapons. There's only one museum (in KK) and if you've been there you'd have seen a few old edged weapons like barongs, kampilans, Mandaus, Kris, keris, pakayuns, spears etc but no parangs. Personally I find the collection there rather small.

Apart from Kota Belud, other new items are being made in Semporna, near Tawau.

Your last example; In Sabah, it's unmistakeably a parang.

17th December 2005, 06:35 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Here is another strange one. I did show it on the old forum and Tom very kindly suggested that the scabbard had some Morro aspects. As you can see it is from around ww2 or latter. I would imagine it is probably from Borneo as the UK did not get that involved with the PI but things and people move around, N Borneo and PI only seperated by islands in the Sulu sea. Tim Attached Images

17th December 2005, 08:59 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	How right you are, now you point it out, the wood is the same. I have another knife with a handle of the same wood, which I also suspect is from Borneo. I did show it many years ago but the response was a little poor. I think there are too many similarities in these knives, not to have come from the same place. Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 17th December 2005 at 09:31 PM.

17th December 2005, 09:04 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Tim, Could you please post a picture of the other knife again? Here is a picture of my Borneo Sadop that also has striped wood. Michael Attached Images

17th December 2005, 09:25 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	This knife is quite different from the parangs but again we see this distinctive wood. We need a botanist, especially when looking at island flora. This knife, I have cleaned but not heavily, I suspect was brought back to the UK after the Malay emergency and brief war with Indonesia. Tim Attached Images

18th December 2005, 11:57 AM	#13
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	John and other forumites, Here is another, obviously Borneo, blade that I haven't found out from where it is. It's much smaller than the other. This one I picked up in Holland so I didn't think of it as from Sabah. But looking at John's pictures from the market I recognised some of the features. What do you think? Michael Attached Images

17th December 2005, 07:31 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	The decoration at the ends of both Michaels and my knife seem to share the same form. The decoration on my prang being a little more stylised. Tim

17th December 2005, 07:38 PM	#3
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Looks more like a Janap to me.

17th December 2005, 08:48 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the feedback! Moro weapons are rare here in North Europe so the only Bangkungs I have seen are those in Cato's book with another kind of blade. But I always wanted a Bangkung in my collection so... What puzzles me a bit is the way the belt rope is attached to the scabbard. I haven't seen that with f.i. Barongs? It reminds me more of a Pakayun scabbard or other parangs I have seen in NW Borneo? Nice parang Tim. Interesting that the wood on your handle is also striped like the wood on my scabbard. Zelbone, what's a Janap (except that it looks like my and Tim's blade)? Michael

17th December 2005, 11:17 PM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I can see a vague similarity with a barong hilt but I have severe problems to believe that a traditional moro craftsman would butcher the kakatua pommel design in such a way. In my eyes this hilt could be based on the barong kakatua but I feel this was done by an outsider who didn't grasp (or didn't cared about) the underlying symbolism and went off in another direction. Areas close to Tausug territory (especially N or E Borneo) might be likely places for its origin IMVHO. Regards, Kai

18th December 2005, 08:42 AM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I am pretty sure the parang that I post is from N Borneo and made by an outsider could just be cultural diffusion. I do not know about Michael's unless you include that one too. It would seem that the striped wood is widespread. Tim

18th December 2005, 09:53 AM	#10
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Good morning Tim, I think your first parang could be from Sabah. When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours. I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours. It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK. Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this? Michael

18th December 2005, 11:45 AM	#12
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks John, Great pics! Maybe our parangs are older versions of those blades but from the same area? But our scabbards have rattan bindings instead of glue as is used nowadays. Have you seen older blades from Sabah? What disappointed me a bit, as a collector, when visiting the market is that all the blades were newly made. Is there any museum in KK, Sandakan or elsewhere in Sabah where they have old blades? Michael

18th December 2005, 12:04 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Great pictures and very helpful, the striped wood does not seem to feature in the parangs of today. Could that type of timber now be rare? It is a most beautiful wood that might have added value to otherwise fairly ordinary knives. Seeing all these new ones makes my one a lot better than I previously thought. The binding on mine is nylon fishing line. Thanks for the interesting help. Tim

18th December 2005, 12:20 PM	#15
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Michael, Frankly, Sabah is NOT quite a place to find old blades apart from the odd ones here and there eg Moro kris, pakayun. Not quite a place for a collector to pick up older edged weapons. There's only one museum (in KK) and if you've been there you'd have seen a few old edged weapons like barongs, kampilans, Mandaus, Kris, keris, pakayuns, spears etc but no parangs. Personally I find the collection there rather small. Apart from Kota Belud, other new items are being made in Semporna, near Tawau. Your last example; In Sabah, it's unmistakeably a parang. Last edited by John; 18th December 2005 at 12:32 PM.