Flanged Mace for comment

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th May 2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Got that interesting piece recently.

What it is exactly?

Lenght 65 cm.
Hollow construction, but quite heavy.
It has a drilled hole on the heft, perhaps a later addition.

I would like to know the origin of the piece. Is it european? Seems so, but I saw very similiar indopersian or turkish pieces.

Any opinions?

Salaams Valjhun....Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_weapons There is a mace in this form on that page. Ottoman.
There is another at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ace+Collection at post #50 also Ottoman.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kronckew · 27th May 2015, 05:25 PM

lots of gorgeous weapons in those links. way above my paygrade.

the 3 'ottoman flanged maces' in the wiki link remind me of my more mundain 'onion' headed steel mace: (top - or left)

i gather you mean the gold one (bottom - or right) which looks very similar to the slightly more distressed one originally posted. i not it does not appear to have the re-inforced points to the flanges - i would guess it was not expected the owner would ever need to actually use it. he must have had people to do that for him so he wouldn't have to.

CSinTX · 27th May 2015, 07:00 PM

Some examples-

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt

The small holes on the flanges of yours are a little concerning. I can't recall seeing those in an original piece but I could be wrong.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th May 2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Some examples-

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt

The small holes on the flanges of yours are a little concerning. I can't recall seeing those in an original piece but I could be wrong.

Salaams CSinTX, Spot on Sir !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Valjhun · 11th June 2015, 11:20 AM

Hello,

Thank you for your replies.

The mace weights a little less than 2kg.

The flanges are attached correctly, each inserted to its individual slot.
The reiforced points are also attached individually

No lenghtwise seam visible on the haft, there is some copper soldering visible at the pommel.

The mace is incredibly similar to the one from HH, postet above.

cornelistromp · 11th June 2015, 05:55 PM

hello,

The weight of the mace is too heavy, which should have a maximum of around 1.2 kg and most are lighter than 1 kg.

the shaft of this type is hollow/tubular and formed by rolling or hammering a flat section of metal around a cylindrical former, so there must be a seam at the shaft along the length direction!

The flanges of the macehead of this type must be fitted in slots cutted in the shaft, from the top down through the metal, and are fixed with copper solder.

Iam sorry but regarding to the weight and the lack of a longitudinal seam.
I think it is a subsequent reproduction, 19th or 20thC.

best regards
Jasper

Roland_M · 12th June 2015, 12:25 PM

Hello Jasper,

I am very sorry to correct you, but the average weight of a european flanged mace is around 1.5 kg and more.
The mace must be so heavy, because the mace is originally intended for penetrate or at least pressing dents in a plate armour. The thickness of a tempered european plate armour is between 1.5 an 2 mm.

A battlefield mace with a weight of less than 1.2 kg would be too lightweight against plate armour.

Best regards Roland

27th May 2015, 05:25 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	lots of gorgeous weapons in those links. way above my paygrade. the 3 'ottoman flanged maces' in the wiki link remind me of my more mundain 'onion' headed steel mace: (top - or left) i gather you mean the gold one (bottom - or right) which looks very similar to the slightly more distressed one originally posted. i not it does not appear to have the re-inforced points to the flanges - i would guess it was not expected the owner would ever need to actually use it. he must have had people to do that for him so he wouldn't have to. Attached Images

27th May 2015, 07:00 PM	#3
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Some examples- http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt http://www.hermann-historica-archiv....db=kat56_p.txt The small holes on the flanges of yours are a little concerning. I can't recall seeing those in an original piece but I could be wrong. Attached Images

11th June 2015, 11:20 AM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Hello, Thank you for your replies. The mace weights a little less than 2kg. The flanges are attached correctly, each inserted to its individual slot. The reiforced points are also attached individually No lenghtwise seam visible on the haft, there is some copper soldering visible at the pommel. The mace is incredibly similar to the one from HH, postet above.

11th June 2015, 05:55 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	hello, The weight of the mace is too heavy, which should have a maximum of around 1.2 kg and most are lighter than 1 kg. the shaft of this type is hollow/tubular and formed by rolling or hammering a flat section of metal around a cylindrical former, so there must be a seam at the shaft along the length direction! The flanges of the macehead of this type must be fitted in slots cutted in the shaft, from the top down through the metal, and are fixed with copper solder. Iam sorry but regarding to the weight and the lack of a longitudinal seam. I think it is a subsequent reproduction, 19th or 20thC. best regards Jasper

12th June 2015, 12:25 PM	#7
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello Jasper, I am very sorry to correct you, but the average weight of a european flanged mace is around 1.5 kg and more. The mace must be so heavy, because the mace is originally intended for penetrate or at least pressing dents in a plate armour. The thickness of a tempered european plate armour is between 1.5 an 2 mm. A battlefield mace with a weight of less than 1.2 kg would be too lightweight against plate armour. Best regards Roland