Basket hilted swords

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

if he started working as a sword smith in Solingen at around the age of 20, then he stopped in Toledo at the age of 107! ???
This is obviously not the case.
if you could survive childhood and your teenage years you had a good chance of living to your 50s or your early 60s.

I think there are two Clemens mixed together here.

re Toldedo:
Wendelin Boeheim refers to one Spanish? dated blade of Clemente dinger,
CLEMETE DINGER ESPERADO MI SIGNAL PARAIO 1677,
but questioned whether there really has worked a Dinger in Toledo.
It was fashion to put in Solingen Spanish phrases and Toledo look a like marks in the blades.

I expect the career of clemens Dinger as suggested by Boeheim, before 1627 to mid 50s to be very likely.

best
jasper

Well, Andrea Ferara produced thousands of blades over at least two centuries!!
Naturally there seems a disparity in records, and there were a number of smiths in the Dinger family over generations. Without any further thought needed toward the latter Clemens Dinger attribution nor Toledo, my point was primarily that the making of this blade seems to me likely the earlier (pre 1627) and I do agree the period suggested.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well, Andrea Ferara produced thousands of blades over at least two centuries!!
Naturally there seems a disparity in records, and there were a number of smiths in the Dinger family over generations. Without any further thought needed toward the latter Clemens Dinger attribution nor Toledo, my point was primarily that the making of this blade seems to me likely the earlier (pre 1627) and I do agree the period suggested.

Hi Jim, yes 1627 is a kind of Terminus post quem the earliest evidence of date, he must have worked.
.

very best wishes,
Jasper

[Cathey]

H Jim,

I purchased both books from Ken Trotman, they are referenced as follows
M099.WEYERSBERG (A.) SOLINGER SCHWERTSCHMIEDE : 1 : 20.00
M009.KINMAN (S.) EUROPEAN MAKERS OF EDGED WEA : 1 : 45.00
Prices in pounds. deliver was very quick.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cathey]

Type of Weapon: Scottish Basket hilted Broad Sword
Date: Circa 1730 (18th Century)
Overall Length: 101.6 cm (40 inches)
Blade length: 87 cm (34.3 inches)
Blade widest point: 3.3 cm (1.3 inches)
Hilt widest point: 11.5 cm
Inside grip length: 9.6 cm
Marks, etc.: Numerous marks to blade shoulder and in both fullers haven’t identified any of them as yet.

Description
Basket Hilt-Scottish-c1730-Broad Sword: - Thick steel basket Hilt has typical heart and circle decoration made of thick flat bars, no wrist guard. Blade length is pitted and has dark patina, numerous marks visible on blade shoulder and both fullers, probably German. The fuller runs almost the entire length of the blade. The blade may predate the hilt however they appear to have been together for very long time.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[cornelistromp]

Description
Basket Hilt-Scottish-c1730-Broad Sword: - Thick steel basket Hilt has typical heart and circle decoration made of thick flat bars, no wrist guard. Blade length is pitted and has dark patina, numerous marks visible on blade shoulder and both fullers, probably German. The fuller runs almost the entire length of the blade. The blade may predate the hilt however they appear to have been together for very long time.

Cheers Cathey and Rex[/QUOTE]

@ Cathey,
the blade seems indeed older, 150-200 year, out of the first half of the 16th century and maybe shortened.
this type of mark I noticed more often at the ricasso of a so-called compound or complex hilt from the first half of the 16th century.
Always on the left side of the ricasso (pommel up) of a double fullered
blade.

best,

[Jim McDougall]

Cathey, thank you so much for the source for those titles, Trotman is an excellent seller.
Jasper, nice catch on that blade!

Best regards,
Jim

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Description
Basket Hilt-Scottish-c1730-Broad Sword: - Thick steel basket Hilt has typical heart and circle decoration made of thick flat bars, no wrist guard. Blade length is pitted and has dark patina, numerous marks visible on blade shoulder and both fullers, probably German. The fuller runs almost the entire length of the blade. The blade may predate the hilt however they appear to have been together for very long time.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

@ Cathey,
the blade seems indeed older, 150-200 year, out of the first half of the 16th century and maybe shortened.
this type of mark I noticed more often at the ricasso of a so-called compound or complex hilt from the first half of the 16th century.
Always on the left side of the ricasso (pommel up) of a double fullered
blade.

best,[/QUOTE]
Hi Jasper and Cathy,
the marks on the blade look like they are from the same maker, and yes the blade is from the first half of the 16th century , from south German Or North Italian origin.
The blade in the basket hilt is a similar blade and looks shortened.
Or it could be a blade from the same maker forged in different dimensions to begin with.
The blade of the complex hilt measures 4,5 CM at the cross guard and is 106,5 CM long.
I cant measure the blade on the basket hilt but I think 3,5 would be close.
Also the fullers on the one and a half sword are 7 mm wide.

@ Jasper , you'r first picture is from that Italian book, but were did you find the picture of the second sword ?
kind regards

Ulfberth

[cornelistromp]

@Dirk,

http://www.baldwin.co.uk/media/cms/a...0Militaria.pdf

lot 184 pp80

best,
Jasper