Need help with the markings on this Swashbuckling Cutlass / Sabre?

[ulfberth]

Hello Dana, my compliments on this untouched sword !
As Jim said, the blade could be Solingen or Styrian, these swords were well used all over Europe from Italy to Denmark in the 16th and 17th century and maybe even as Pirate swords.
After all they are very useful for close range sword fighting, although their balance lends more to slashing and cutting they can be uses for stabbing as well.
The picture is from the castle in Coburg Germany, in the front you can see swords with the same rectangle pommel on different hilts, basket hilts and simpler hilts, in the back left side, there are several one's like yours with a sail guard hilt and rectangle pommel,one even has the heart shape in it.
These swords were well spread in use and over an extensive period by farmers, citizens, soldiers etc.

Kind regards
Ulfberth

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Dana,
The stamped devices seen in your blade correspond to various Italian origin marks most notably those known as 'twig' marks (the central figure is indeterminate), which were used in numerous configurations. While obviously this would suggest such origin for this blade, it seems doubtful as Solingen was typically the source for most of these. I believe it is quite possible that this may be a Styrian blade as they often copied Italian marks in these times. I need to check further into Boccia & Coelho to see if perhaps the original marks are there,.

As Cap/n Mark has noted, these stout heavy bladed sabres were often favored in maritime context for the excellent hand protection and heavy shorter blades ideal for close quarters/ melee engagement. I would note here that these so called 'Sinclair' sabres ( more accurately dusagge) were also long believed to have been highly influential to Highland basket hilts.
While that specific claim is somewhat disputed, it is notable that these distinctive 'heart' devices in the hilt also occur regularly in pierced designs in Highland basket hilts. It seems quite possible that this association might secure certain associations between these and the same design seen in those basket hilts.

Thanks Jim! You are always such a wealth of information. Now I just need to do a search for 'twig' marks and find some examples. You've mentioned Solingen before and I will revisit those discussions while making a new search for "Styrian" and "Boccia & Coelho".

Maybe you could answer a question, why is this a sabres rather than a cutlass? Is the blade to short or narrow? Is it now curved enough?

***

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hello Dana, my compliments on this untouched sword !
As Jim said, the blade could be Solingen or Styrian, these swords were well used all over Europe from Italy to Denmark in the 16th and 17th century and maybe even as Pirate swords.
After all they are very useful for close range sword fighting, although their balance lends more to slashing and cutting they can be uses for stabbing as well.
The picture is from the castle in Coburg Germany, in the front you can see swords with the same rectangle pommel on different hilts, basket hilts and simpler hilts, in the back left side, there are several one's like yours with a sail guard hilt and rectangle pommel,one even has the heart shape in it.
These swords were well spread in use and over an extensive period by farmers, citizens, soldiers etc.

Kind regards
Ulfberth

Thanks for the kind words and comments and Ulfberth. And especially for sharing the photo.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Dana,
When it comes to the 'name game' all kinds of twists and turns come up. One might think 'cutlass' pertains only to maritime swords, while ashore they are 'hangers'....like a map is on terra firma while it becomes a 'chart' at sea.
The etymologists deem the term cutlass from the French 'couteau' as in couteau de chasse =hunting hanger. etc.

These short, heavy, curved blades were termed loosely sabres, as in 'Sinclair sabres' as used by forces in militias etc. on land.

I have seen many heavy bladed hangers termed 'cutlasses' in a more collective manner, but I think in most cases cutlass is reserved for maritime associated curved swords. Many of these forms of sword had large shellguards and in a number of cases in pirate related jargon they were called simply a 'shell'.

I' ll see if I can get to Wallace or Boccia and look for that mark.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Dana,
When it comes to the 'name game' all kinds of twists and turns come up. One might think 'cutlass' pertains only to maritime swords, while ashore they are 'hangers'....like a map is on terra firma while it becomes a 'chart' at sea.
The etymologists deem the term cutlass from the French 'couteau' as in couteau de chasse =hunting hanger. etc.

These short, heavy, curved blades were termed loosely sabres, as in 'Sinclair sabres' as used by forces in militias etc. on land.

I have seen many heavy bladed hangers termed 'cutlasses' in a more collective manner, but I think in most cases cutlass is reserved for maritime associated curved swords. Many of these forms of sword had large shellguards and in a number of cases in pirate related jargon they were called simply a 'shell'.

I' ll see if I can get to Wallace or Boccia and look for that mark.

Thanks again for helping put me on the right path Jim.

[Jim McDougall]

You bet Dana!
Just plowed through Boccia and Wallace, and it seems though no exact match, the triplicate nature of this grouping using 'twigs' flanking a central device was typical in many North Italian instances around end of 15th c. through the 16th. I would personally think that Styria would be a most likely source for this blade.

These types of stout sabres, which actually are most correctly termed 'dusagge' are of forms very much in accord with Italian 'storta' of these times (also short sabres). These were used by many mercenary forces often supplied through Styria as well as Passau and other regional centers, thus the diffusion of these forms, accompanied by the markings which signified quality etc to these groups.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

You bet Dana!
Just plowed through Boccia and Wallace, and it seems though no exact match, the triplicate nature of this grouping using 'twigs' flanking a central device was typical in many North Italian instances around end of 15th c. through the 16th. I would personally think that Styria would be a most likely source for this blade.

These types of stout sabres, which actually are most correctly termed 'dusagge' are of forms very much in accord with Italian 'storta' of these times (also short sabres). These were used by many mercenary forces often supplied through Styria as well as Passau and other regional centers, thus the diffusion of these forms, accompanied by the markings which signified quality etc to these groups.

Can you believe that some people think studying ends after they graduate? Thanks again Jim!

[ulfberth]

Dana,

is there a story that goes with this sword, I mean I'm sure there is but is it known or do you know were it came from or were it was found?

best

Ulfberth