Tomas De Aiala sword blade.

[Jim McDougall]

I'm really bad at finding pics etc. but what I mean is that on rapiers it seems the guard of course is at the base of the blade, and the ricasso extends to the bottom of the grip. In other words there is a section where the fingers extend past the grip and around the block section. With the cuphilt for example, the cup is at the blades end, and inside there are pas d'ane rings adjacent to the ricasso......then the grip starts beyond that.

In this type of tang, the grip is right at the blade base, there is no ricasso to be visible inside the cup or guard.
Fernando can explain this better

The symbol you show here is the cross and orb, while somewhat related to the 'anchors' in having cross symbolism, is not what I mean by the symbol on your blade.
The cross and orb relate mostly to German blades, and though often suggested 'makers marks' are usually used in conjunction with various names, invocations or other inscriptions on blades. This is very much like the way the 'anchors' were used on Spanish blades, and used in Solingen with other spuriously used punzones, names and phrases.

On the Aiala name, just an observation as the name is spelled differently on various occasions so interjection of the 'de' might be correct. Just seemed notable.

[fernando]

In the plate and nomina designed and crafted by Francisco Xavier Palomares in 1762, after the listing drawn by his father Francisco Santiago Palomares, the name for these smiths (father Thomás and son Luis) was DE AIALA.
Mind you, the maker's punzon may appear both in the uncovered part of the tang, before the guard (ricasso), also in the first third of the blade section (forte).
BTW, the term ricasso may also be applied to the blade section right after the hilt when its purpose is the ( long) sword entire hand holding, which is a different story.
Whereas the blade has (or not) an assumed ricasso before the hilt, i would say such is not a characteristic of different smiths but the purpose the blade is going to serve, whether a cup hilt sword, a swept hilt rapier, you name it.
I am not sure this whole story makes sense, as i am far from having a profound knowledge of the subject.
Attached are examples of marks in ricassos, the first a cup hilt sword with period symbol in both sides and the second with a makers punzon in one side; the first also with a period typical motto on the blade (MIN SINAL HES EL SANTISSIMO CRUCIFICIO) and the second with the maker's name (GONZALO SIMON).
Master Gonzalo Simon (1608-1617) also figures in the Palomares nomina and, eventually also uses the 'anchor' mark



.

[Jim McDougall]

Superbly explained and illustrated by the master !!! Thank you Nando!

[Fernando K]

Hola Me ha llamado la atencion el motto . No deberia ser

MI SEÑAL ES EL SANTISSIMO CRUCIFIJO

Afectosamente. Fernando K

(El traductor no permite, o no se, ponerlo como corresponde, en ingles)

[fernando]

Espaderos were not so good in writing as in forging blades, Fernando .
The only letter of the motto i was not sure of, was the H, as this part of my blade was rather worn.
But i happened to locate the mentioning of a shell guard sword (item #234) in the Portuguese/Spanish exhibition of 1882 in Lisbon, with the same motto and precisely the same words ... and with the H included. Also the Christ crucified symbols were present in the ricasso. Such sword belonged to D. Jaquim Garcia Toledo from Lisbon.

[Jim McDougall]

Just found it I think Norman,
In Boccia & Coelho (#726) there is an Italian smallsword (c 1680-90) with virtually this exact type blade, and the quad dots next to the 'eye' with dot, fuller etc.
In this case the 'Tomas' is on obverse side of bade while 'Aiala' other.
In this case this tang would insert directly into hilt as seen here, and there would be no 'stem' type ricasso as with rapiers.
I'll try to get a pic, but always a challenge with my antiquated tools (and me
In Wallace (1962) it is noted that in many cases Italy used the Tomas Aiala name, just as did Solingen. In this case this could well be a Solingen blade in Italy, or other way around but used on smallsword rather than rapier.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Fernando and Jim,
Many thanks for your continued interest and elucidation. I'm still trying to tie down a more specific date and style for this blade but from your replies and what I've found myself the range of possibilities are pretty wide, the search goes on. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.


P.S. Jim, is the blade you refer to etched or stamped/engraved?

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Just found it I think Norman,
In Boccia & Coelho (#726) there is an Italian smallsword (c 1680-90) with virtually this exact type blade, and the quad dots next to the 'eye' with dot, fuller etc.
In this case the 'Tomas' is on obverse side of bade while 'Aiala' other.
In this case this tang would insert directly into hilt as seen here, and there would be no 'stem' type ricasso as with rapiers.
I'll try to get a pic, but always a challenge with my antiquated tools (and me
In Wallace (1962) it is noted that in many cases Italy used the Tomas Aiala name, just as did Solingen. In this case this could well be a Solingen blade in Italy, or other way around but used on smallsword rather than rapier.

@ Jim
very good find, it seems to me that an early 17thC shortened rapier blade is re-used in this 17thC small sword.This was done a lot during the transition from rapier to the much faster small swords, in the second half of the 17thC.
(always shortened at the base not the tip!)
an Italian origin for the blade under discussion is likely.

best,
Jasper