Algerian Musket - Restored

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent notes Ibrahiim!
It has always amazed me that with these wonderfully historic arms, all attention is focused on appearance, value, condition but the mere mention of markings is typically ignored. In my view, all aspects of a weapon should be equally attended.
It was interesting that your observations on that Algerian gun mark revealed striking similarities to those curious marks found on some of the blades on Red Sea swords.
Without directing too much attention to these markings on the blades, it would be interesting to know if anyone has more on those seen on this musket.

This one on the musket seems more pronounced and definable, while some of those others including the one shown by Mr. Blalock seem highly stylized, almost reminiscent of the 'twig' or similar marks from various trade blades.

Best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent notes Ibrahiim!
It has always amazed me that with these wonderfully historic arms, all attention is focused on appearance, value, condition but the mere mention of markings is typically ignored. In my view, all aspects of a weapon should be equally attended.
It was interesting that your observations on that Algerian gun mark revealed striking similarities to those curious marks found on some of the blades on Red Sea swords.
Without directing too much attention to these markings on the blades, it would be interesting to know if anyone has more on those seen on this musket.

This one on the musket seems more pronounced and definable, while some of those others including the one shown by Mr. Blalock seem highly stylized, almost reminiscent of the 'twig' or similar marks from various trade blades.

Best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim, It was a long time ago that I took up the problem of this sword and Gun mark and please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ttara+comments at post 176. I almost forgot what that problem was but it relates to swords with either that mark or a simplified cross appearing in Red Sea Areas sometimes rehilted on Omani Hilts but carrying this mark. Accordingly the mark is translated by Dom as meaning ...made by...(Amal)... and clearly with an Algerian link. I hope there is no derailment here as everyone can observe the amazing swordmark which is identical.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, It was a long time ago that I took up the problem of this sword and Gun mark and please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ttara+comments at post 176. I almost forgot what that problem was but it relates to swords with either that mark or a simplified cross appearing in Red Sea Areas sometimes rehilted on Omani Hilts but carrying this mark. Accordingly the mark is translated by Dom as meaning ...made by...(Amal)... and clearly with an Algerian link. I hope there is no derailment here as everyone can observe the amazing swordmark which is identical.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Good point, but don't think these observations will derail the thread as little further will develop concerning markings here. The idea was to determine if any connection to the distinct marking on this musket, using the marks on the analogous sword blade instances as examples.
Many times clues as to symbolism, purpose or meaning of marks and features on many weapons whether edged or firearms, are found in assorted material culture or items.
A mark occurring on a rug or coin might be informative in comparison to something seen on a particular weapon.....investigative research

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good point, but don't think these observations will derail the thread as little further will develop concerning markings here. The idea was to determine if any connection to the distinct marking on this musket, using the marks on the analogous sword blade instances as examples.
Many times clues as to symbolism, purpose or meaning of marks and features on many weapons whether edged or firearms, are found in assorted material culture or items.
A mark occurring on a rug or coin might be informative in comparison to something seen on a particular weapon.....investigative research

Salaams Jim, Absolutely agreed and thank you for your post. I had hoped to engage with Mr Michael Blalock but I suspect he was very busy... The current gun mark and sword mark linkage are now firmly placed for future research ...and I hope some light can be thrown on the Algerian stamp or strike. Blade marks, stamps, design and strikes are very confusing particularly as the trend to copy European marks probably to indicate a superior blade seems to have been done a lot in Arabia ....though clearly some marks came with the great flood of weapons from centres like Solingen. Just the other day I saw an Omani Dancing Sword sporting the funny face moon and accompanying decoration and with a stud or dot at the tip but this was a played with sword from Muscat and totally flexible! It occured to me that swords with a simple cross often near the hilt at the throat were in fact of the make Algerian...and on non flexible blades. Thanks for your reply..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent notes Ibrahiim!
It has always amazed me that with these wonderfully historic arms, all attention is focused on appearance, value, condition but the mere mention of markings is typically ignored. In my view, all aspects of a weapon should be equally attended.
It was interesting that your observations on that Algerian gun mark revealed striking similarities to those curious marks found on some of the blades on Red Sea swords.
Without directing too much attention to these markings on the blades, it would be interesting to know if anyone has more on those seen on this musket.

This one on the musket seems more pronounced and definable, while some of those others including the one shown by Mr. Blalock seem highly stylized, almost reminiscent of the 'twig' or similar marks from various trade blades.


Best regards,
Jim

Hi Jim
Thanks for your input on this Thread. That Ibrahiim was able to identify this mark, with links to the Red Sea region, and add to this Thread is most appreciated. And an unexpected surprise.
Now I need to investigate if any other markings exist on the other Algerian locks in my collection.
Meantime, here is a lock marking from another Algerian musket in my collection. It is a different mark, but in the same location as the first. Maybe someone can identify this one?
Thanks again for any assistance.
Rick.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Jim
Thanks for your input on this Thread. That Ibrahiim was able to identify this mark, with links to the Red Sea region, and add to this Thread is most appreciated. And an unexpected surprise.
Now I need to investigate if any other markings exist on the other Algerian locks in my collection.
Meantime, here is a lock marking from another Algerian musket in my collection. It is a different mark, but in the same location as the first. Maybe someone can identify this one?
Thanks again for any assistance.
Rick.

Hi Rick,
Absolutely, and thank you for continuing the impetus of this thread by seeking other examples along with Corrado. The observations by Ibrahiim indeed reveal there are certain similarities which might give us a better idea of the scope and dynamics of arms trade in these regions.

While my focus has typically been on edged weapons and makers marks and inscriptions mostly European, I have found that often many clues and important details reside with material on firearms. Case in point with Elgood's excellent book on Islamic firearms.....his footnotes are a treasure trove of encyclopedic data!

Often of course various trade entrepots handled all types of arms, and comparing marks on all can many times give us key details.

All best regards,
Jim

[rickystl]

Well, I have three more locks to post here. Since I posted two above, we'll call these locks 3,4, and 5. I'll post #5 separately, since it is the most interesting.
#3 here is another "parts" lock with it's mark on the bottom.
#4 lock is complete and in good condition, but needs additional cleaning. With it's mark.

[rickystl]

Here is lock #5. At one time this had to be a beautiful lock. It is a bit larger than others that I've seen. It's complete,with the exception of the crude copper replacement wing. The lock plate has brass overlay on BOTH sides of the plate. It has some brass, but mostly silver inlay/overlay throughout. Even the bottom of the mainspring has genuine silver inlay, most of which is still present. The dog safety catch at the rear has what's left of a "pink" stone, so famous with Algerian guns.
There are three marks on the bottom of the lock. Two engraved in brass plates, the other in a silver plate. Only lock I've ever seen marked this way. Maybe someone can translate? Thanks for looking. Rick.

[rickystl]

And the rest for lock #5. Very cool markings!!!

[corrado26]

Hi Rick, thanks a lot for posting these interesting fotos, especially the underside of the mainspring with its silver inlay and the brass cover at the inside is most remarkable. This shows the pleasure of the gunsmith while making this lock and demonstrating his skillfullness. Very impressive. I like these locks very much, much more than the long guns they are belonging to
corrado26