A few sundry pirate items...

dana_w · 27th April 2015, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Here we have a Queen Ann style cannon barrel pocket pistol. Despite its size, it was a .45 cal! Two types existed of this pistol, with this being the true "pocket" size.

Hi M ELEY,
That is a nice short sword you posted today.

There is some disagreement about what is and what is not a "Queen Ann Pistol". I believe that your pistol may more accurately be described as a Box Lock Pistol. Like the conventional Queen Ann, they have turn-off barrels. Burgoyne does cover Box Lock Pistols in his book "The Queen Anne Pistol 1660-1780", but many collectors wouldn't classify a Box Lock Pistol as a Queen Anne.

To quote one well know Queen Anne collector John Chalapis:

I would also like to mention that the box lock, center cock variety that came into vogue during the last half of the 18th century, was purposely not included in my talk as I feel that this variety was not the true Queen Anne but a modification of less expensive design and manufacture

http://americansocietyofarmscollecto...8_Chalapis.pdf

M ELEY · 28th April 2015, 02:47 AM

Thanks for the proper terminology, Dana. I had always wondered about that screw barrel pistols continued use far longer than the so called Queen Anne types...

dana_w · 28th April 2015, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Thanks for the proper terminology, Dana. I had always wondered about that screw barrel pistols continued use far longer than the so called Queen Anne types...

Check out my avatar M ELEY. With the exception of a grotesque mask on the butt-cap, it has all the features you'd expect to find in a Queen Anne Pistol. Some might consider it a Queen Anne, but because it was probably made around 1690 it is really a prototype of what would become know as the Queen Anne. Queen Anne`s reign didn't begin until March 8th 1702, and you can't have a Queen Anne Pistol before there is a Queen Anne.

http://weaponscollector.com/h_ellis_c1690.php

Jim McDougall · 28th April 2015, 04:53 AM

I would point out here that 'Cap'n Mark' was using the term 'Queen Anne' 'contextually' I believe, to describe this small but potent 'pocket cannon'. As a brilliant author of tales of the 'Golden Age of Piracy' his thoughts naturally are of these times particularly during the reign of Queen Anne ( many pirates had allegiance to her despite their outlaw ways, i.e Blackbeard's ship the Queen Annes Revenge).

It would seem that while the 'golden age' had long passed, the traditions and activities of 'piracy' continued well into the 18th century, as did the 'Spanish Main', as one of the driving forces in these pursuits . In the many years of collecting and studying the arms used in these colorful times, one may be allowed a bit of latitude in my opinion in describing the arms in that sense .

As Burgoyne states ("The Queen Anne Pistol" 1660-1780", 2002, p.52),
"...the boxlock was a logical development of the side cock Queen Anne style pistol".
Perhaps the date range covered in this outstanding reference which includes the period of the pistol Mark has shown (1770) also would allow the term to be inferred in this sense. Actually he describes the pistol as Queen Anne 'style' in the same manner as Burgoyne.

Naturally, the later pistols in Burgoyne are properly termed 'boxlock',but for our moments venturing into the literary world of piracy ("Treasure Island" was set in the 1750s) , we might consider a pirate captain with one of these in his coat pocket as Mark describes........and he may well have recalled the times of Queen Anne.

I think there's still a bit of 'romantic ' in most of us old sea dogs!!

CutlassCollector · 28th April 2015, 05:13 PM

Nice pistol Mark, and good to see a nautical thread again.
I'm also looking forward to the book publication - sounds like a good yarn.
CC.

M ELEY · 28th April 2015, 07:22 PM

Dana, thanks for the exceptional thread. I like your avatar!

Thank you, Jim and CC, for your comments. I think Dana's information is correct in the technical sense and I appreciated the clarification. Jim, you do point out the fact that these awesome screw barrels continued to be called 'Queen Anne style' pistols, a fact I've also encountered over the years. The cannon-type barrel pistols certainly create visual pictures of sea captains and piracy. As mentioned in my original thread, they were popular with captains and officers, carried in their 'great coat pockets' for protection.

P.S. CC, I'm all out of items to post and hope you can add to the thread! I also miss the nautical items!

dana_w · 28th April 2015, 11:01 PM

John Chalapis talks about some of the classification problems in his American Society of Arms Collectors article. Keep in mind he was writing many years before Burgoyne's book was published.

To my knowledge there has been comparatively little information written to describe and clarify the Queen Anne pistol. I am sure that all of you have a visual idea of a Queen Anne, but if you are asked to describe it, it becomes very difficult. For every positive statement that can be made about the Queen
Anne pistol, a counter statement can be made. For example: "All Queen Anne pistols have turn off barrels." There are many examples that do not screw off (see figure 1). "The lock is always integral with the Breech." I have several examples with detachable side locks (see figures 2 and 3). "The barrel is always cannon shaped at the muzzle." I have seen Queen Anne pistols with large flared muzzles, which could be called blunderbuss Queen Annes. So, therefore, my description will not refer to the exception, but to the general rule of Queen Anne pistols.

The classic Queen Anne pistol may be said to be a breech loaded pistol - turn(screw) off barrel - the lock is integral with the breech- the cock is located on the side of the lock and generally has no wood forward of the lock (see figures 4,5, and 6). The butt of the grip has a slight curve forward terminating in a bulbous swell, and is usually capped with a silver butt cap. Also accepted in this description are the "fish tail" butts which have the more common shape of the holster pistols of the period. This type was also capped in silver, steel, brass or in a combination of these metals. The early Queen Anne pistols occasionally may be found with rifled barrels, but the majority have smooth bores.

http://americansocietyofarmscollect...28_Chalapis.pdf

As long as we are talking about Queen Anne "style". What do you think of this Queen Anne Carbine?

28th April 2015, 11:01 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 436	John Chalapis talks about some of the classification problems in his American Society of Arms Collectors article. Keep in mind he was writing many years before Burgoyne's book was published. To my knowledge there has been comparatively little information written to describe and clarify the Queen Anne pistol. I am sure that all of you have a visual idea of a Queen Anne, but if you are asked to describe it, it becomes very difficult. For every positive statement that can be made about the Queen Anne pistol, a counter statement can be made. For example: "All Queen Anne pistols have turn off barrels." There are many examples that do not screw off (see figure 1). "The lock is always integral with the Breech." I have several examples with detachable side locks (see figures 2 and 3). "The barrel is always cannon shaped at the muzzle." I have seen Queen Anne pistols with large flared muzzles, which could be called blunderbuss Queen Annes. So, therefore, my description will not refer to the exception, but to the general rule of Queen Anne pistols. The classic Queen Anne pistol may be said to be a breech loaded pistol - turn(screw) off barrel - the lock is integral with the breech- the cock is located on the side of the lock and generally has no wood forward of the lock (see figures 4,5, and 6). The butt of the grip has a slight curve forward terminating in a bulbous swell, and is usually capped with a silver butt cap. Also accepted in this description are the "fish tail" butts which have the more common shape of the holster pistols of the period. This type was also capped in silver, steel, brass or in a combination of these metals. The early Queen Anne pistols occasionally may be found with rifled barrels, but the majority have smooth bores. http://americansocietyofarmscollect...28_Chalapis.pdf As long as we are talking about Queen Anne "style". What do you think of this Queen Anne Carbine? Attached Images Last edited by dana_w; 29th April 2015 at 01:12 AM.

28th April 2015, 02:47 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Thanks for the proper terminology, Dana. I had always wondered about that screw barrel pistols continued use far longer than the so called Queen Anne types...

28th April 2015, 04:53 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I would point out here that 'Cap'n Mark' was using the term 'Queen Anne' 'contextually' I believe, to describe this small but potent 'pocket cannon'. As a brilliant author of tales of the 'Golden Age of Piracy' his thoughts naturally are of these times particularly during the reign of Queen Anne ( many pirates had allegiance to her despite their outlaw ways, i.e Blackbeard's ship the Queen Annes Revenge). It would seem that while the 'golden age' had long passed, the traditions and activities of 'piracy' continued well into the 18th century, as did the 'Spanish Main', as one of the driving forces in these pursuits . In the many years of collecting and studying the arms used in these colorful times, one may be allowed a bit of latitude in my opinion in describing the arms in that sense . As Burgoyne states ("The Queen Anne Pistol" 1660-1780", 2002, p.52), "...the boxlock was a logical development of the side cock Queen Anne style pistol". Perhaps the date range covered in this outstanding reference which includes the period of the pistol Mark has shown (1770) also would allow the term to be inferred in this sense. Actually he describes the pistol as Queen Anne 'style' in the same manner as Burgoyne. Naturally, the later pistols in Burgoyne are properly termed 'boxlock',but for our moments venturing into the literary world of piracy ("Treasure Island" was set in the 1750s) , we might consider a pirate captain with one of these in his coat pocket as Mark describes........and he may well have recalled the times of Queen Anne. I think there's still a bit of 'romantic ' in most of us old sea dogs!!

28th April 2015, 05:13 PM	#5
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 343	Nice pistol Mark, and good to see a nautical thread again. I'm also looking forward to the book publication - sounds like a good yarn. CC.

28th April 2015, 07:22 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Dana, thanks for the exceptional thread. I like your avatar! Thank you, Jim and CC, for your comments. I think Dana's information is correct in the technical sense and I appreciated the clarification. Jim, you do point out the fact that these awesome screw barrels continued to be called 'Queen Anne style' pistols, a fact I've also encountered over the years. The cannon-type barrel pistols certainly create visual pictures of sea captains and piracy. As mentioned in my original thread, they were popular with captains and officers, carried in their 'great coat pockets' for protection. P.S. CC, I'm all out of items to post and hope you can add to the thread! I also miss the nautical items!